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 Replies: 16 / Views: 3,451 |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
I stopped into the Central Florida Coin Expo in Orlando, FL. This is a decent size show where they get together every 6 months. The nice benefit to this show is that ANACS always has a table accepting submissions and offering grading advice. Usually I will take a potential coin(s) to their table and ask their opinion. This is a great service as my weakness in grading is the dreadful "slider" range of AU to MS. AU55 to MS63 grades drive me crazy. Strikes from the 1920's have differant grades from other years and throw in luster, red, red/orange and RB into the mix, I usually grade on the "dark side". Anyways, Randy Campbell from ANACS was working the show and every Lincoln I brought to him was either "dipped" or had something wrong with the coin. I was hunting for a 1923-S and 1924-S Lincoln in the slider range. What I thought were some nice coins turned out to be "body-bag" candidates. He said, "Look at the color and it is a dead give away." I looked and looked and felt like an idiot and finally he asked, "Have you have been tested for color-blindness?" and I told him, no and he suggested, "...that I better stop buying "red" Lincolns unless they are certified and graded."  Anyways, I finally picked up a few nice additions to upgrade the collection that were "approved" by ANACS, but I got thinking...collecting Lincolns and determining Red from Red/Brown from Brown along with luster, strike and grade...well, I better check my eyes before I make anymore major purchases. You hit 40, you need reading glasses and one of the top graders tells you in front of other collectors that you are probably color-blind...well, I had better days at shows.  |
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Valued Member
United States
56 Posts |
The guy sounds like a punk. I know his type- just about no matter what you show him there is something wrong with it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Geeze Zak,, dont take it so hard, I still respect your opinion,(YA LIKE THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE) I know !!!!
any way, if you do have a color blindness you can adjust to it by shades and still pick the good Red Ones !!!
Rick
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Zakgold, Your not an Electrican or Painter by trade are you? Mike  |
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Valued Member
 United States
382 Posts |
No...I'm in sales and marketing for a color measurement company (isn't that ironic?). You know those devices...you see them at everything from Home Depot to Auto Body Shops that measure and communicate color.
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
I wouldn't feel too discouraged. At least now you know that you might be "color-challenged". (Is that PC enough?) I know that they can correct a myriad of problems with lasic surgery nowadays...can they do that with color-blindness?
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
I was tested by the Army for color blindness maybe 20 years ago and found I had problems in the various shades of browns, enough so that it almost got me kicked out of the Army. This was something new for me, but it made me aware that I was moving on in years. Maybe it's just as well I stay away from coppers and stick to silvers, i.e., my lovely Morgans.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
Zak,
I have a customer that is legally blind and still picks the most beautiful coins in the world. He has a very nifty trick. Now you showed me some very beautiful Lincoln Cents last fall at Palm Beach. If you are having difficulties in distinguishing a light cleaning, take one of your nice Red, Red Brown, and Brown slabbed coins with you to a show. Place the "wanted" coin next to each to determine the color. Teach yourself the fine basics that if it does not match EXACTLY that you will not buy without an opinion. Most dealers will not have a problem with having a second opinion. If they do, you should know better than to deal with them anyways. If you can't seem to develop a little system to use, stick to the slabs or very trusted dealers.
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
I have a number of slabs graded by PCGS, NGC, etc. at MS63BN to MS67RD for "wheaties". Where I fall short is the variation of strikes from year to year. For instance, the 1920's were notarious for "weak" strikes and poor attention to quality control. What may deem a MS grade for certain years may only warrant AU (at best) for other years. Also the color of Lincolns are sometimes differant. For instant, spent shell casings were used after WWII hence, altering the color. Take Morgan dollars also. Experienced collectors can simply look at the obverse and almost tell what mint produced it. What would grade a MS64 for San Francisco may grade a MS66 for New Orleans if you look at just the strike alone. Along with color, I think that the variations and degree of strike are areas I need to work on. I am a sucker for eye appeal. If it looks good with luster and clean, high focal areas, I want it...trouble is that sometimes I want coins that may not measure up. |
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Valued Member
United States
89 Posts |
Ed, it was nice the ANACS grader was helping you with indentifying artifical color. I think it was a bit personal (and rude) for him to suggest you might be color blind, though. From reading this and reading other boards, the topic of artifical color on copper has seemed to crop up more often, especially with high dollar early mint state Lincoln cents. Attached below are ebay auction pictures of two early Lincolns purchased by a PCGS board member. Both coins were "bodybagged" by PCGS for artificial color. These were possibly whizzed as well. Now, I have no idea how this AC is done, but I suspect the coin doctor dips the coins and then uses some agent to simulate the red, and get rid of the unnatural pink. If anyone can enlighten me on this, I would be interested in general knowledge as to how this is done (to better able detect this crud, not to do if of course). Lesson here: if you enter the high dollar MS Lincoln market, tread lightly, and arm yourself with knowledge!! Makes you long for the days as a kid of putting Lincolns in Whitman Folders!!     |
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Valued Member
United States
382 Posts |
Wow!! Beautiful pictures and you are right on...if you tread the high end MSRD Lincolns, you really need to be on your game. I'll admit it. I would look at these coins and just envy the strikes and all...not thinking the color may be "dipped" or artificially toned. That is my biggest concern as some of these coppers look differant from year to year and I have been very hestitate to buy "reds" unless somebody can give me a second opinion. Thanks for the post.
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Forum Mom
United States
5877 Posts |
They look to me like they were chemically treated. The fields show a roughness that you probably wouldn't see without the magnification of the pictures. It looks to me like the chemical ate into the surface. You can see roughness in the devices also. I'm sure without magnification these coins look gorgeous. Definitely a case of acquiring the knowledge before acquiring the coin.  |
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Valued Member
United States
89 Posts |
The roughness may also be from a whizzing to simulate mint luster. The ebay seller who does this has quite a racket going. He mixes in TPG graded coins to give an overall appearance of a high end Lincoln dealer. Another tipoff that the seller's raw coins are messed with is that they all have the exact same color and hue to them. Real red cents will vary somewhat in color from coin to coin and especially from year to year. Edited by Connecticoin
04/13/2005 11:56 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
You know, the sad thing is these coins on their own merits in original condition ,would have slabbed high even if they were BRN coins,, sad thing for sure.
Rick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
980 Posts |
CTcoin- I'm not personally working on lincs currently, but can you tell us the ebay seller so we can avoid him "like black death"  Don |
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Valued Member
United States
89 Posts |
Metalman, I agree. Those coins were probably nice BN or RB mint state coins, now they are near worthless junk. SF Dukie, click here: http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...id=-1&de=offTwo of the three negs are the coins pictured above. The 1914 was sold as a 66RD for $220! Amazingly, though, if you browse through the feedback, most buyers say they are pleased because they do not know any better. |
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,451 |
Posted 04/09/2005 6:12 pm
