Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

(Possible) 1911 Matte Proof Lincoln Cent Found In Bank Roll!

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 22 / Views: 8,036Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community
Kefiroth's Avatar
United States
1431 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  01:22 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Kefiroth to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
First off: I've been reading this forum for the past few months, and I joined just now so I could share this with you as I just made what might be a huge discovery today. Please pardon this very long-winded story.

Alright, so I'm rather new to CRHing and have been sorting through boxes of pennies for the past few months. (done maybe 15 total so far) I've found my fair share of common wheats and have stashed $50 face worth of copper pennies. (all of these have been N.F. String boxes, mind you)

One day a month or so ago, I had an especially nice box, containing several common 40's and 50's dates, along with a single roll that had a 1911 and a 1912D.

At the sight of those two coins I was of course excited at the fact I was holding two 100 year old artifacts of a long gone era. I knew however that with a mintage of over 100,000,000 that the 1911 was really nothing too special, and the 1912D was infected with that nasty green corrosion (drat!). I put them both away in the roll of common date wheats I had been building up.

Enter the present day: I'm kind of bored, and decide to take another look at that 1911 for whatever reason. (It is still my oldest roll find to date after all) It's good looker and is in pretty good shape for an almost 100-year old coin. (not an expert, but I'd say XF45-49)

I find myself wondering, if not wishfully thinking, that the reason it's in such good shape might be because it was a proof. (yeah right!) So I get on the computer and look at the mintage figures for 1911 proof cents. (under 3,000 yikes!)

Now since the proofs as well as business strikes were both minted in Philly, I was wondering how it would be possible to tell the difference. So I search online for some info on how to distinguish a 1911 proof cent, and found a nice page detailing the 1911 proof's die characteristics which include:

-Die crack running from wheat stalk to rim on reverse at 2:30 position
-Die gauge on obverse above the G in "God"
-Small blob on obverse in the fork in the Y in "LIBERTY"
-Small blob on upper right of the first 1 in "1911"

The first one I could see on my coin with my naked eye and it matched the picture on the webpage. This got me really excited so I whipped out my dad's old microscope to check the rest of the die signatures. (on 100x magnification)

The die gauge above the "G" was not very pronounced but it was definitely there. The other two checked out in accordance with the photos on the webpage.

I checked once, I checked twice, and I checked a third time just to make sure, and I have reason to believe that this 1911 cent was indeed struck from the proof die! (though I'm a bit skeptical until I get it checked out by a qualified examiner)

[continued next post]
Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppertop5150 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think back in those days it was not a actual proof but a new polished die?
But the proof was the first coins off the new die ? that were " proof quality " before the die lost its newness
not sure
Pillar of the Community
Kefiroth's Avatar
United States
1431 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kefiroth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So now that bring me here.

Of course I don't expect you all to believe this without pics of said coin, which I will provide as soon as possible. (I need to borrow my sister's camera)


I need to know where to go from here. If it really is a 1911 MPL Cent, is it worth getting slabbed even if it is below MS condition though it still has clearly visible proof die characteristics? Who Should I get it graded by? How much might it be worth? I'm honestly a casual CRHer who never thought I'd hold a genuinely rare coin.

But I digress. If this is legit then that would be like winning the jackpot in the CRHing lottery right?
Pillar of the Community
Kefiroth's Avatar
United States
1431 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kefiroth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well that's one of the things I haven't been able to figure out.

Was the "proof" die (I've read there was only 1) used to make business strikes as well?
Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  01:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppertop5150 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
man just lookd it up
RedBook says 350$ for the 1911 proof , if only 3000 were made you would think it would be higher
also online a site says to look at the rim a round rim vs a flat rim could be a indicator also

http://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/2...at_cents.php
Pillar of the Community
Kefiroth's Avatar
United States
1431 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  01:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kefiroth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The rim looks sharp and flat. Like I said, I'll get pics as soon as I can.
Valued Member
thecoinczar's Avatar
United States
455 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  05:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thecoinczar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would get it slabbed by PCGS or NGC for authentication. That would give you peace of mind and you would know for sure where the 1911 stands.
Valued Member
Manuel's Avatar
United States
163 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  07:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Manuel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've heard that the proofs from that time have squared edges. If it has major toning, it might be a proof since they were usually wrapped up in (something, I can't remember) that caused toning on the coin.

That would have to be one of the best roll finds ever if it is. Good luck, I hope it's real.
Pillar of the Community
oih82w8's Avatar
United States
7840 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Where are the pictures?

Pillar of the Community
Kefiroth's Avatar
United States
1431 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kefiroth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rest assured, pics are on the way.

However as my sister's camera apparently is a terrible cheap piece of junk, I'm going to have to borrow my friend's camera later this week for the picture.

I don't know if I'll be able to capture the subtle die markers though, so it may just look like a regular 1911. (the die gauge on reverse is pretty visible though)


Again, I don't know where to start when it comes to verifying this coin. I don't want to have to pay $40 for a pcgs or ngc subscription when I only have 1 coin to grade!
Pillar of the Community
Americanamafia's Avatar
United States
672 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Americanamafia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Take it to a dealer and have them submit it for you. If it is legit, it should be slabbed.
Pillar of the Community
jokingjoker's Avatar
United States
2150 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jokingjoker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Correct the matte proofs will have a square flat rim rather than the rounded wire rim. Also the fields might have a grainy appearance to them. Last time I checked Anacs was still certifying Matte proofs and you don't have to join with a membership.
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Take it to a dealer and have them submit it for you. If it is legit, it should be slabbed.

You could send it to ANACS yourself without having to join any membership with the company if you do not have any trustworthy dealers around you

Quote:
Last time I checked Anacs was still certifying Matte proofs and you don't have to join with a membership.

I didn't see this until I had already responded with my above post but I would send it in myself also and ANACS would be just fine for a coin like this where attribution is basically all you need to be sure it is what you think it is
Pillar of the Community
United States
573 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add StJoeBlues to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you have a sharp dealer in your area, you could have him take a look prior to sending it in for slabbing. A good one should be able to tell you if it's legit.

BTW - That's a great story. I hope for your sake it's real. I have a 1909 VDB that I thought was a matte proof. I had one of my local dealers check it and he assured me it wasn't.
Edited by StJoeBlues
11/10/2010 9:46 pm
Pillar of the Community
Kefiroth's Avatar
United States
1431 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kefiroth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the input everyone!

I think what I'll do is send it in to ANACS as was recommended, then get in contact with a dealer for possible appraisal and such.

Should have pics by Saturday! :)
Valued Member
Buzzard's Avatar
United States
156 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  10:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buzzard to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I recall, the mint at this time was still using former proof dies to produce business-strike coins. Even if the cent is not a proof, it could still be from the same die pair.

Whether or not it turns out to be a proof, it's quite a find!
  Previous TopicReplies: 22 / Views: 8,036Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.4 seconds to rattle this change. Forums