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Melting Silver Coins

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ACE Mike's Avatar
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  3:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ACE Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi everybody!

I was wondering if there is anybody out there in the refining business that could explain why silver coins get melted when the price goes up?

If one has a $1000 bag of 90% at roughly 715 ounces, is that silver worth more as bullion bars than coins? I know that if those coins were refined into 715 - 1 ounce bars, there would be roughly a dollar markup on the bars, but is it worth the time and expense of refining that bag of 90% to make the bars?

Thanks for your comments.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188325 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion it is pointless to melt them unless there is an immediate industrial need. Leaving them in coin form is more convenient for holding/trading/selling as investment bullion. If you melted those coins, then the bars would need to be assayed; negating any profit gained from the melting.
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ACE Mike's Avatar
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACE Mike to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exactly what I was thinking, jbuck. That is why I am curious about the melting. But every time the price goes up, you read about lots of melting going on in the weeklies ( Coin World / Num News).
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Americanamafia's Avatar
United States
672 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  4:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Americanamafia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dealers sell large quantities to them because it is usually their only market for an immediate sale. That is why my guy says. Buying silver this high, he said he does not have the balls to keep it. When he buys a thousand dollar bag... he cant afford to sit on it because the market is so volitle.
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Americanamafia's Avatar
United States
672 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Americanamafia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It works out good for me because he lets me cherry pick the bags that are off to melt :(
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carmykle's Avatar
United States
2448 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carmykle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are lucky to be in that position.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188325 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  5:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The dealer perspective sounds justifiable, easy turnover.
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United States
511 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2010  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 3stooges to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dealers tend to send stuff like 100-ounce bars, sterling and foreign silver to the smelter. At least one refinery (Golden State) will turn scrap into one-ounce rounds.
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United States
365 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2010  12:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeriousCERES to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This week, one of my nearby coin dealers had a big old box of silver housewares that he was soon going to be carting off to the smelter. So, add to your list of bullion bars the following: cups, goblets, serving dishes...
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United States
254 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2010  01:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rkp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mainly because there is profit to be made by the dealer and the refiner. It's a shame as the vast majority of these coins could be collected and further scrutinized for varieties. Instead, we get large shiny bars... What fun :(
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Nic's Avatar
Philippines
1156 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2010  04:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
perhaps their being melted to arrive at the end-product and not silver bars. In which case profits are realized immediately
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Maineman750's Avatar
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2010  04:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with Nic
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188325 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2010  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
perhaps their being melted to arrive at the end-product and not silver bars. In which case profits are realized immediately
Exactly my point stated earlier. If there is an immediate industrial need, then melting them would be necessary. I do not know many silver coins that work well "as-is" for electrical components, photography, medicine, mirrors, catalysts, nuclear control rods, musical instruments, etc.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2010  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At many flea markets and possibly regular jewlery stores that make their own items, Silver coins are melted all the time. Many of these type jewlers give a small amount over face value, melt down the coins and use whatever they get for Jewlery. There are many people that do not know what else to do with Silver coins so they sell to these people for any profit at all. No one really checks for purity when buying a charm bracelet, charms for the bracelet, earrings, neclaces, etc. If a jewler sells them as Silver, 90% of the customers have no idea and could care less if it was ever a coin.
Also, flea market Jewlers could care less if the coin WAS worth more as a coin since Numismatics is not their buisness. A Silver coin is just Silver to them.
Actually a very small percentage of people know or care about the values of coins. Very few know about dates or mint marks on coins. And even less people know or care what metals coins are made from. This is always difficult to understand when your on a coin forum, but go around and ask the average person about coins and it becomes clear that few care. Coins are money and that to them is all they are.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2010  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is also a large number of investors who WANT bars and they do pay a premium for them. The smelters need silver to produce those bars and silver coins are a source of the raw material for those bars. And jewelers and other industrial end users need silver bars as raw material for their purposes to. To make those bars they melt down and refine silver from many sources including coins.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2010  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
allot of dealers sell off coins to the smelter because they are getting more money for the coins to them and its immediate where it doesn't have to sit in their inventory. Most dealers work on a tight margin of profit so anytime they can make one they go for it. They can sell those bags of coins to the smelter for like $100.00 over what they paid where if they kept them to sell in their store it may be 5 or 6 years before they finally got the whole bag sold at a piece at a time no matter what condition they were in. That is 5-6 years with the market fluctuating and thats their money tied up until all their money is recouped, even if they can make double the price they are waiting 5 times as long to get it. With the smelter they make a profit (which is all they want) and they get it done faster. This was the fate of allot of silver coins in the 70's especially bags and bags of UNC Morgans, but they were worth more for silver content when you look at the big picture than they would be worth selling piece by piece. I have heard from some dealers that sold Morgans by the bags at 100 or 200 sealed bags at a time to the smelter. At 1000 coins a bag 200 bags is 200000 Morgans at one time
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