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 Replies: 31 / Views: 15,589 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
539 Posts |
so this is not a thread to discuss the merits or lack thereof of cleaning. I'm trying to figure out what is in MS70 cleaner. I see it advertised on many coin supply sites.
I'm sure even this 'soap' ? modifies the coin surface but I wanted to know if anyone has the info on what it actually is. I tried contacting the company that makes it but I never got a reply
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:
I tried contacting the company that makes it but I never got a reply
GEE I wonder why. Did it occur to you that if they went and told everyone what is in their products, everyone would simply make their own and start selling it also. Start reading lables of almost anything. Many will tell you what is in their product to a point but not exactly. Some say very little really. For example most insecticides sold at the average store on the lables say something like 0.05% insecticide and 99.95% other ingrediants. Could well be water. Many products do say most or lots of what is in their product but no quantities of them. If you contact most manufaturers of any product they will always tell you what is NOT in their products but not what is. If you invented something, would you run around telling everyone how to make one too? |
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Moderator
 Australia
16816 Posts |
It's not sold here in Australia, but from what I've heard about it, it's a mixture of soap and acetone.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
It is worth remembering here how soap (or detergent) is made, and how it works.
Soap is originally derived from palm oil, and detergents are derived from mineral oils. As we all know oil, whatever the type, does not dissolve in water. The oil is reacted with a hydroxide to make one end of the (now) soap or detergent molecule dissolve in oil and the other end dissolve in water. When the soap or detergent is used, the oil which you are trying to remove, goes into solution in the water using the soap or detergent molecule as a sort of joint between the two.
Why all this theory? It is because soap and detergents are made with hydroxide compounds, most commonly sodium hydroxide (NaOH), which is corrosive. The corrosion problem is as near as possible attempted to be eliminated by the manufacturer by means of pH balance to a neutral value of 7. Very difficult to achieve a value of exactly 7 near the balance point.
That is why all coins, especially proofs, should be thoroughly rinsed with distilled water after cleaning.
Edited by sel_69l
11/13/2010 07:44 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
539 Posts |
well, I didn't expect to get an exact list of ingredients but I guess I didn't expect to get a sarcastic answer either. oh well! What I was hoping for was something along the line of sel or sap's input. I know cleaning is not a really good or accepted practice but I have some bronze coins that are pretty low value and look like, well, dark brown circles of metal. You cannot see anything. Since MS70 seems to a pretty popular cleaner (only derived from the number of places that carry it) I was hoping for input.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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well, I didn't expect to get an exact list of ingredients but I guess I didn't expect to get a sarcastic answer either. oh well! What I was hoping for was something along the line of sel or sap's input. I know cleaning is not a really good or accepted practice but I have some bronze coins that are pretty low value and look like, well, dark brown circles of metal. You cannot see anything. Since MS70 seems to a pretty popular cleaner (only derived from the number of places that carry it) I was hoping for input.
Sorry if you took what I said as sarcastic but probably, sort of was. Mostly what I mean is it just isn't logical for a manufacturer to disclose what they make their products with. As an example I just took a cough drop. I looked at the lable and it said "Active Ingredients per drop: Menthol 5.8 mg". So what is the rest of that product? If your really interested you could try purchasing some MS70 and find the name and info on the lable for attempting to contact the manufacturer. They may actually tell you something as to what their product contains. As to a possible mixture of soap and Acetone, might well be possible since there are possible thousands of varieties of soaps, even that is possible. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
my grandfather had a bottle of it when he died and I had it here for a long time but I can't seem to find it now to see what it says
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Hopefully someone on this forum has a bottle of that stuff and lets us all know what is stated on the lable.
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Valued Member
United States
365 Posts |
Just guessing here guys, but if I think that if it were only acetone and soap, it wouldn't be quite as damaging as it is. There's GOT to be more to it than that.
Jet fuel, for instance. Or used battery acid.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
539 Posts |
well I have a bottle of it now but just like the ads for it, it only says it is a strong cleaner and contains no acid. Oh, and don't drink it or even touch it. I don't have rubber gloves handy and I'm not sure I could hold a little coin all soaped up anyway with gloves. It does leave a very slippery feeling on your hands until you really rinse them. And then it has a drying effect. All what you might expect from a soap concentrate.
I'll tell you what though, it may not have any acids but it eats the heck out of an aluminum coin!! Or so it seems. I may try another one for the heck of it. Aluminum is not one of the metals lists on the bottle and I think I know why! It seems to have zero effect on a copper nickel coin except to make it clean. I cannot see any surface damage and since the direction say to 'massage' (honest it says massage in quotes) with a qtip, I don't really see any fine lines. It seems to clean copper/bronze coins but doesn't really bring back the color per se.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
Looking at my bottle of MS 70 Does not show a ingredients list It does say contains: strong cleansers. It says it "does not change the color of your coin but does removes surface contamination and tarnish" I have used it with good results on a couple Jefferson nickels and a Peace dollar. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
I guess I was typing while you posted ..
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Weavus135: It seems to me that that cleaner of yours has either soap or a hydroxide of some sort. A drop of either on your finger will leave a soapy feel. It may well have acetone in it as well, as Sap has suggested.
If it is a hydroxide, it is reacting with the natural oil in your skin, and turning that into a 'soap'. To confirm a simple test such as this, try diluting some caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) with water, and put a drop of that on your skin. You will appreciate how your skin oils are turned into a soap. Most commercial detergents are mildly caustic (not acidic). That is why they are able to strip greases and oils from your dirty dinner plates. Oven cleaners are either of the solvent or caustic type, or both, and with a foaming agent, if from a spray can.
You have confirmed that caustic solutions will readily react with aluminium That has nothing to do with soap reactions, it is just a form of caustic corrosion. Two reactions take place simultaneously here:
6NaOH + 6Al reacts to give 2Al(OH)3, the aluminium hydroxide precipitates, the sodium ions go into solution, to react quickly with water:
6Na + 6H2O reacts to give 6NaOH + 3H2, which comes off as a gas, the sodium hydroxide stays in solution.
This is the first time in 40 years that I have attempted junior high school chemistry!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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Just guessing here guys, but if I think that if it were only acetone and soap, it wouldn't be quite as damaging as it is. There's GOT to be more to it than that.
Jet fuel, for instance. Or used battery acid.
Used Battery Acid? Why USED? At many auto parts stores they sell UNUSED, NEW, battery acid for usage in the old Lead Acid batteries. Not sure what is in Jet Fuel either but I've put many cans of Octane booster in my cars gas tank and doesn't really seam to do much. sel_691 not sure if you realize the chemical forumlae is immaterial here. The original question was what is in MS70. Quote:
Looking at my bottle of MS 70
Does not show a ingredients list
It does say contains: strong cleansers.
Exactly what I've been saying. Why would any manufacturer tell you how to make your own similar product so you could outsell them? Quote:
well I have a bottle of it now but just like the ads for it, it only says it is a strong cleaner and contains no acid. Oh, and don't drink it or even touch it. I don't have rubber gloves handy and I'm not sure I could hold a little coin all soaped up anyway with gloves. It does leave a very slippery feeling on your hands until you really rinse them. And then it has a drying effect. All what you might expect from a soap concentrate.
And that too may well be over kill but just as the warnings on cigarett packs, no manufacturer wants a law suite due to accidents. A nasty problem with not warning about touching items that are caustic in any strength is people tend to touch their eyes, nose, mouth, etc with their hands after touching something like that. Also, a trip to a washroom with your hands full of that may well make you sorry. Your hands are so much trouble that on TV your warned constantly to wash your hands. And one more thing to think about is post like this one will make their sales jump extensively while people try to see what is in that bottle. Edited by just carl
11/15/2010 10:29 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
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but if I think that if it were only acetone and soap, it wouldn't be quite as damaging as it is Who said anything about MS70 damaging coins? I do not know what is in MS70 but it is a basic pH detergent solution. It should only be used on gold, silver, nickel, and very cautiously on copper. MS70 does have the occasional issue of toning unc RB or BN copper interesting shades of blue and violet, results may vary. Circulated copper tends to turn out a little pinkish with prolonged exposure. I would not recommend using MS70 on a coin with toning that you want to preserve, the lighter layers of toning may be removed. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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A drop of either on your finger will leave a soapy feel. yeah I do remember getting some on my fingers from the lid and it felt soapy and slick like feeling |
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Replies: 31 / Views: 15,589 |
Posted 11/12/2010 3:53 pm
