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Pillar Dollar

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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2006  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As well as the test cut at 1 O'Clock on the obverse I've noticed the following features of interest on this great 8R Portrait

I think I am seeing some die clashing running through the HISPAN on the reverse. There are incuse denticles running just inside the normal ones from the dot just before the H in HISPAN right through to the N. Also there look to be incuse reverse images of some of the letters on the obverse around some of the letters in HISPAN. In particular you can

1:see the uprights of the U from CAROLUS around the P in HISPAN\
2:clearly see the outline of the O from CAROLUS in between the A and the N of HISPAN.

Well I think this is die clashing, perhaps I have the wrong term but I definitely see something odd there.

Pillar-Dollar


Die cracks on the obverse running from the dot before the 17 of the date. One of them is clearly showing wear at the high point where it runs across Carolus III's robe.

Pillar-Dollar

Edited by markn
09/25/2006 12:46 am
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2006  09:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
mnemtsas - That is a VERY nice copy and not a forgery. I am glad that it worked out with Ernie. He is a very nice fellow and I have known him a few years. I am also glad that your wife likes the coin. The pictures you posted are super and I think you appreciate the nature of this series now. You call it "character" - that is an excellent word to use. These older coins were made far differently than modern coins. This was the era of handwork - not mechanization. That is why I fell in love with these coins when I was a kid. The modern coins made after the introduction of the three die press are STERILE.

The term you used "clash" is exactly the correct one in this case. The dies came together without a planchet in between and the dies hit with great force. It happened all the time because planchets were positioned between the moving dies BY HAND. I can't imagine sticking my fingers in there. It may be that the cracks you see in the reverse die were caused by the original clash. The clash happened when the dies were in a slightly different (possibly tilted) alignment. The missalignment of the dies was rather pronounced at the time of the strike. When this happened it often stopped production because the dies had to be re-worked to remove the more obvious (central) signs of the clash. It is very likely that there was originally more of a clash present and that the dies were "lapped" (filed down) to remove some of the clash. It would be interesting to see if you can match the dentil and letter spacing from the clash with this particular reverse die. Quite often die pairs were broken up after clashes because typically one die was damage more than the other.

It is a very nice coin and could be one of the "Proclaimation" coins as easily as not.

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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2006  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
mnemtsas - I just re-read your comment and noticed a minor correction that you should make - just to be precise.

Mexican coins like all Spanish Colonials refer to the die that contains the name of the Country as the obverse die. In this case, that means that the side with the Shield and NOT the side with the King's portrait is the Obverse. The King is on the REVERSE of the coin.

I know that is a picky technicality - but purists of the series use that convention when discussing the coins. Personally I will often say Portrait side and Shield side to make sure there is no confusion. It probably does not sound "professional" but I prefer to be clear in communicating my meanings.
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