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A Clean Coin Question.

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Jaymon74's Avatar
United States
844 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2011  01:26 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jaymon74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all!

So I got a whole lot of coins for not much $ the other day. Unfortunately a few of them were cleaned. I found out that they had been cleaned with a dremel tool.

Here's my question(s).

1. How much does cleaning cut the value of a coin?

2. Is there any way to reverse the damage as far as patina etc?

3. If yes for #2, how?

I can load up some examples of some of the cleaned coins that I'm referring to. Not all were harshly cleaned, others are.

It's a shame that this happens, unfortunately it is part of the hobby we deal with from time to time. I think it must be the thinking that restored is worth more. May be correct for some things, but not for coins.

Thanks for any help givin.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16826 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2011  01:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1. By a lot. It has to be a pretty scarce coin for it to retain much of its value after a harsh cleaning, and dremelling is about as harsh as you can get. It sounds like your coin has been "whizzed".

The price of a coin is a function of supply and demand, and cleaning makes the "demand" side of the equation fall to near zero - collectors just don't want badly cleaned coins. On the supply side, part of the reason that uncleaned, pristine old coins are worth more is because relatively few old coins are still in that pristine, uncleaned state.

2. Not really, no. There are ways to try to disguise the damage, known as "artificial toning", but there's no way to actually undo the damage from a harsh cleaning job. Using artificial toning to try to disguise shoddy cleaning and, especially, then selling those coins without mentioning the "treatment" they have undergone is universally regarded as deceptive and immoral.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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mitchhailey's Avatar
United States
1150 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2011  02:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mitchhailey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with Sap. An astute collector will probably notice an old cleaning. However, most new collectors would not be able to tell and therefore it would be wrong to try to pass off a cleaned coin, with AT, as original (I'm definitely not accusing you of wanting to do that, Jaymon). I was in my favorite coin shop the other day when an older gentleman came in and asked the dealer for some stuff to clean his coins with. The dealer tried his best to tell the guy that he shouldn't clean his coins, but he just wasn't having it. He finally left the shop and as he was leaving was saying how he was going to go somewhere else to find what he needed. Some people just don't want to hear it when you tell them that their coins are actually worth more when they are 'dirty.'
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Maineman750's Avatar
United States
3592 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2011  07:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Maineman750 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you ever sell them, just be sure you disclose the fact that they were cleaned and let the buyer decide.I've sold some cleaned coins on ebay and gotten near full value so not everybody thinks cleaning is a bad thing. I don't clean them and don't recommend it,but I also believe in an individual's right to like what they like.
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Jaymon74's Avatar
United States
844 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2011  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaymon74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys for the input. No, I don't plan on selling any of my coins. I just really hate the cleaned look, it doesn't look natural.

Sap, How does " artificial toning " work? I'm guessing it's some kind of stain?
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wheatguy's Avatar
United States
1534 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2011  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wheatguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How does " artificial toning " work?


Artificial toning is often used to heighten the value of a coin because attractive naturally toned coins bring a large premium, so many shady sellers try to pass of AT coins as naturally toned, such as with this seller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1885-Monster-Mo...em3a61d4ed84

There are a variety of methods which include baking the coin in an oven, using chemicals, etc. As Sap said artificially toning a coin is also used to disguise any problems a coin may have.
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x78089's Avatar
United States
255 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2011  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add x78089 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would recommend staying away from AT and enjoy the coins as they are. Hopefully in the future they will naturally re-tone and you will have an even prettier coin.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2011  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As usual it was sort of missed that you did not say you wanted to resell them. Ever notice how many jump on a post about something with the first thing with selling a coin? Naturally if you ask about value that really makes people want to tell you about costs. However, you did ask how much, which to many means selling.
As to your #2 question. I purposely buy cleaned, washed, polished coins a real lot. Great for experimentation. Many looked like they were polished with car waxes and a dremel. After playing around here is the results:
A-Clean-Coin-Question.
All of these at one time looked like proofs they were polished or cleaned excessively. All went through dipps and soaks in solutions such as Laquer Thinners, Mineral Waters, Acetone, Vinegar, etc. All to get off whatever may have been put on them. All rinsed with either tap or distilled wawter at various times.
The main thing was to just put on a raw piece of wood and left on a kitchen window sill for several months. They are all still there now.
Slowly they start to look like normal coins but naturally they will always appear to be somewhat cleaned. Regardless, since I am not selling them, never will, who cares about their CLEANED VALUE?
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Jaymon74's Avatar
United States
844 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2011  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaymon74 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey there just carl. I usually don't buy cleaned coins. I was able to buy a mixed lot of coins for $86.00 (including a few that I bought separate) I'm wanting to add these "cleaned" coins to my collection, but don't want that freshly cleaned look to them.

The main reason I asked about value is so that I'll know better next time on the buying side of things. I knew that it lowered the value, but didn't know how much. No, I'm not selling them.
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2011  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
2. Is there any way to reverse the damage as far as patina etc?


If they were just dipped, I'd let them re-tone, but polishing is an entirely different animal. They can never be returned to uncirculated condition. But they can look like "normal circulating coins" again ...

Put 'em in your pocket with the rest of your change and carry them until they look "normal". It's what gives circulating coins that look of wear. This will remove metal and ultimately lower the grade, but if you've got polished coins, you have nothing to lose.

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