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 Replies: 14 / Views: 2,261 |
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Valued Member
United States
425 Posts |
OK, just a little rant here about ebay, but mostly the people that sell there. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...TRK:MEWAX:ITHere is an auction that was just posted for a 1748 Pillar Dollar. The seller says:"You can bid with confidence as I am very trustworthy and take great pride in my ebay presence!" But here is almost the exact coin from an auction that ended 15 minates ago. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...TRK:MEWAX:ITThe differance is this seller tells you right away that it is a Lead, cast fake. Check out the reverse side of both coins, there is a pair of lines that runs from the shield to just over top on the "M". p.s. The coin posing as real.....already has a bid that is twice what the fake sold for! |
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Locked
822 Posts |
So why is the rant about ebay? You're not upset with the seller? In my opinion, the seller that put that lead coin back in play is just as much a dirtbag as a seller that sells it as real. For 10 stinking bucks he should have melted it down and gone fishing. Completely irresponsible. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3592 Posts |
 on all points |
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Valued Member
 United States
425 Posts |
Oh don't get me wrong here, I agree w/Scubu 100%!! I guess that I mis-spoke, I should have said I don't agree w/some of the sellers on ebay. Many Pillar Dollar collectors could look at this coin and say maybe Sea Salvage, but 99% its fake. But if one person gets taken, or worse, if a seller finds out they can sell fakes w/o telling bidders........we all lose. Now I will say this...... what got me so hot last night was that I "assumed" that the second seller may have bought the coin for $10 and then re-listed it as real. But now I have seen that these two coins are clearly from the same mold.....but one has an edge ding at the "X" on the reverse side, but the other does not. |
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Valued Member
United States
425 Posts |
Another point to be made here........ I have been collecting fake/copy/counterfeit Pillar Dollar coins for about 15 years now, and have never seen this copy before. If two of the same copy Pillars hit ebay in the same week, and they are not from China,(No Offence!)? Some one is making coins and now they are being passed as original and they have not been stamped "COPY". |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I am the buyer of the $10.50 fake. It is NOT lead. I believe it is a white metal casting high in antimony from the period around the turn of the century 1900 not 2000.
I agree that the other coin is also a cast and should be properly identified, but even a cast copy is not worthless if it is of substantial age.
I have a date collection of struck Pillar forgeries that is almost complete (1733-1772) - and I am starting a cast set as well.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
I agree with swamperbob. ebay is amazing for what I have found, not for what I have been gypped on. I just got a coin scale from China for $5, including shipping. And while I do have a cast replica Pavel I rouble I didn't pay more than Bob just did. Coins like this were far more than offset by French coins far scarcer than any Morgan dollar. You have to know what you're looking at. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
01/13/2011 10:20 am
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Valued Member
United States
425 Posts |
OK Swamper Bob, I agree with you about 99.999% of the time.........but on this one I have to say this coin is a modern copy. As I said before, I have NEVER come across this copy coin in all the years I have been searching out Pillar Copys, and now the 3rd one is listed on ebay in just 10 days! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...150547732485One 1748 Pillar w/a double scratch next to the shield? OK, maybe a 100 year old counterfeit. Two 1748 Pillars w/a double scratch next to the shield? I don't know..... BUT Three...... all listed in about a week! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
It is possible for three old forgeries to appear suddenly if they came from the same source. I should be able to tell when it arrives.
But I completely agree with you that the coins were all clearly made from the same host coin. That normally means that the fakes are NEW but here I have some additional facts.
The seller I bought my copy from has access to an old hoard of coins which came from a North Central Mexican dig site. The hoard of several thousand counterfeits was found at an old mine site where there was a silver refinery. The cores of plated counterfeits and non-silver fakes were disposed of on site. This dump was discovered about 15 years ago and the contents have been appearing sporadically over that entire period. I believe this seller is a second or third tier distributor for the original finders. He has offered many examples that were clearly part of the hoard in the past. I am hopefull that this coin is PART of the hoard.
If this coin is out of that hoard there is no surprise that multiples show up at once. I own a half dozen identical forgeries that came from that hoard and ALL are Riddell varieties. So the hoard is OLD, but includes coins up to 1909. The facility was abandoned BEFORE the Mexican Civil War.
I base my supposition entirely on this sellers earlier offerings which have included numerous examples from the hoard. I have made a study of the dates and types found in that hoard and I trust the original source.
BUT until I see this particular coin I can not be sure it is from the hoard or not. But at the price, it is no problem either way. Regardless of the age, I do not yet have an example of this forgery in my collection.
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Valued Member
Canada
75 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
425 Posts |
Quote: "The seller I bought my copy from has access to an old hoard of coins which came from a North Central Mexican dig site."
OK, I had not thought of that one......but that makes alot of sense!
Almost the exact thing happened to me. About 10 years ago I bought a nice copy 8-reale MO mint Cob from a collector, selling off his collection of fakes. It has a shape like no other cob I had seen! Paid $40 for it and was very happy w/it.
About 5 years ago I was offered 50+ fake cobs in both Gold and silver for a $1 each sight unseen. Seems this guy was selling off boxes of tourist items his grandfather was selling in the 1950's and 60's. In that box of fakes was 8 of this same cob! If they were to hit the market now, all at once, I bet it would be the same.
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Valued Member
United States
425 Posts |
SwamperBob, Can't wait to hear about this coin when you get it!!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The coin arrived today.
First of all, it is NOT lead. It is a far harder material like antimony and the surface texture has the feel of zinc.
The coin has a partial edge seam and there is no evidence of burial in the Hoard as I hoped for.
In summary, I believe it is Modern and essentially worthless.
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Valued Member
United States
425 Posts |
So, my question is "Why?". Why would some one make a modern copy of a coin that does not really fool anyone, clearly a copy and will mostly only bring $10 or so? I would think it would have cost more than that to make it! I mean if these dealers are starting their auctions at $1 or $2, they must not be buying it for over a buck!
So, why?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Because they cost far less than a dollar to make. That is why they are made.
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Replies: 14 / Views: 2,261 |
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Posted 01/12/2011 06:01 am
