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Your Collection....back In Time

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Valued Member

Canada
88 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  12:03 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Kempire to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey everyone,
As I am sitting here going through my new collection of morgans, I keep thinking how valuable these coins were back in the late 1800s and early 1900s. What I mean is, a dollar back then was a lot more than a dollar today (obviously), but if you took your collection of morgans, back to say, 1904, what would they be worth today. Say I had 200 morgans, which would be 200 dollars, with inflation, and change in the us dollar, what would that be equivalant to todayƉ.<

I have no idea what the average salary was back then, so any thoughts on this will generate some great discussion. Just thought I would see what you all think.
mike.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  06:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are all kinds of calculators out there that can give an answer to your question - this one, for instance, uses several different bases you can choose to use for your calculations; it gives numbers ranging from $4500 to $140,000, depending on what basis you use.

For me, I collect all kinds of coins, ancient, mediaeval and modern. For ancient coins, this question is even harder to answer, because of the thousands of years difference between our culture and theirs. Doug Smith has written this interesting article discussing the issues and problems in calculating a "modern value equivalent" of an ancient Roman coin.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  08:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really don't think there is any possible way to estimate that. No formulae is possible since there were so many variables in prices back then. Even in the early 1900's, prices of items varied so massively from place to place that an attempt to find one common method of determining that would be just a wild guess.
It may be difficult for many to understand how far we all have gone in the last 50 years even. For example indoor plumbing in many areas is as recent as the last 25 years or in some areas still not available. In the 1940's you could go to a local store and pay $0.05 for a loaf of bread but go to another area and pay $0.25 for the same loaf.
In the early 1940's Silver Dollars were common and spent as ordinary money. I remember doing that a lot back then. Not many coin collectors since we just came out of a massive depression so people had other things on their minds than collecting coins. Or anything.
A Morgan silver dollar was just a Dollar.
The problem here is those Dollars that were worth a Dollar could buy things for what may have been worth a Dollar. However, due to coin collecting, Morgan and almost any Silver Dollar has shy rocketed in value much more so than just inflation. Then too over time people have realized that some Morgan dollars are worth way more than others.
Today we have mingled in the inflation values, coin collecting values, mintage quantity values, Grading systems and Silver values so it is really not to easy to figure out anything for your 200 Dollars worth.
Valued Member
Waredu's Avatar
United States
397 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Waredu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with what just carl. What you're really asking is "What is the purchasing power of a dollar today versus 100 years ago?" There can be no real answer to that because of the discrepancy of goods for sale then versus now.

Take bread for example. Today a loaf of store-name bread can be had for under a dollar at the grocery store. 100 years ago there was no such thing as sliced bread (that started in the late 1920's). Most people made their own bread.

Let's look at milk then. Today you can get a gallon for around $4 - nice, cold, safe and pasteurized. Pasteurization wasn't required by law until 1908 in Chicago, with other major cities following.

How about transportation? Today, automobiles are readily available to just about everyone. 100 years ago, people still primarily used horses. Long distances used trains while we use airplanes.

How about clothing then? In most households, women made the clothes from bolts of cloth. Today, we purchase clothes straight off the rack.

Many things we take for granted today were not even available 100 years ago. I'm not talking iPhones, I'm talking toilet paper. Pre-packaged toilet paper was a luxury at the turn of the century. Many people still used outhouses and Sears catalogs. The telephone wasn't invented until 1876. If you wanted to know how Aunt Flo was doing - you wrote a letter. And then waited for one to come back.

Not only has the purchasing power changed - but what was purchased has changed. There are so many variables that any comparison is almost meaningless.
Pillar of the Community
United States
759 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OneBowl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There absolutely is a way to estimate the purchasing power today of $200 in 1904 and Sap pointed out one such tool. You just need to retain the measurement unit of dollars and not start thinking in terms of individual products. The most commonly accepted answer to the question you posed? $200 in 1904 = about $5000 of 2010 purchasing power for "stuff" in general and ignoring the PM angle. That's with using the CPI as the key variable input per Sap's link. Yes, underlying assumptions could be argued, but since I do that 50 hours a week already, I won't enter the fray here.

Just to illustrate how thinking about individual products changes things, take the last 5 years. Oil was about $45 a barrel, compared to about $90 today. A big flat screen TV was about $1000, compared to under $500 today. Thus, a basket of goods approach that spans geographic areas yields better results.

Now, give us the dates and grades of those 200 Morgans and today's purchasing power is easily quantified.

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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The way I look at it is that in 1904 an average working mans annual income was about $400 a year. So $200 was roughly half a years income. Today they say the average income is around $35K so half a years income is about $18K. 1904 $200 would roughly equate to $18,000 today.
Valued Member
Wei Fun's Avatar
United States
244 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wei Fun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's not quite as simple as plugging numbers into a calculator might suggest. The question of how to calculate the impact of inflation is one that continues to vex economists and probably will continue to until the end of time. Serious issues that need to be considered are the changing mix of what people buy, and the changing quality of those goods and services.

For a gallon of milk, it's an easy comparison. A gallon of milk now is little different than the gallon of milk 50 years ago. You can compare prices directly.

But what about computers? The current CPI calculation assumes only year over year adjustments, with a guesstimate for quality factor. For one year over another, that might get close to right, but over the long term, completely breaks down. For instance, the processing power of the computer on which I type this response could not have been had for any amount of money 25 years ago. Conversely, if someone tried to sell a computer now with the horsepower that was available back then, he couldn't get any money for it whatsoever. Of course 100 years ago, no one spent any money on computers at all, since they didn't exist. How does one figure that into an inflation calculation?

Or take entertainment. Around the turn of the 19th/20th century, there was no TV. If you wanted entertainment you had to go to a show, which comparatively speaking was much more expensive than the one-time cost of a TV (even if you include the insane prices cable companies charge).

An average salary based comparison breaks down for this same reason - Back in 1904, average income might have been $400/year, but things like dishwashers, refrigerators, microwave ovens, and air conditioning didn't exist. Cars did, but were so cost-prohibitive as to effectively not exist. Electricity did too, but most didn't have access to it. Even running water, which we take for granted, didn't exist in most rural areas. So, yes, you had $400/year to spend, but what you had to spend it on was much more limited, and much less pleasant, than what we have today.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How about transportation? Today, automobiles are readily available to just about everyone. 100 years ago, people still primarily used horses. Long distances used trains while we use airplanes.

And at the present prices of gasoline, I predict the return of the horse and buggy soon.
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triggersmob's Avatar
Australia
9357 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2011  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add triggersmob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I took my 1921 Morgans back to 1904 I would probably get arrested for forgery.

Steve
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2011  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Average salary may break down some but not too badly. It doesn't need to consider the fact that there are things we have today that they didn't have then because hat it really comes down to is that in 1904 an average wage was $400 and it took $400 to maintain the average workmans lifestyle for a year. Today an average wage is $35,000 and it takes $35,000 to maintain todays average workmans lifestyle for year. SO the $400 = $35,000 is a fairly good comparison.
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SilverFossil64's Avatar
United States
183 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2011  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverFossil64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can probably only look at this type of comparison on an example basis rather than a rule. For example, compare the cost of bread to bread at a specific place/time to another time as another poster mentioned. Even today, prices for the same things vary across the country. Another point to consider is standard of living. People tend to have a lot more possessions these days. A "poor" person today may have a more cushy lifestyle than a middle class person 100 years ago. The value of a silver dollar has eroded, but the value of what that dollar was made from can still buy something like a nice meal today (1 oz silver => $28 => nice meal). Would 1 dollar buy a nice meal at a restaurant back when those coins were made?
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