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1878 S Morgan

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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2006  01:08 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This is another one I'm not sure of. Can I get some grading opinions from the forum members?

Image: 1878-S-Morgan 1878 S Morgan.jpg
61.57 KB

Image: 1878-S-Morgan 1878 S Morgan Reverse.jpg
66.39 KB
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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2006  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PS - it does have full mint luster both on the obverse and reverse.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2006  10:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one could reach AU50 as a result of the luster.
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Ralph's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 09/23/2006  4:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What about the coin keeps it from being an MS?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2006  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First, understand that I'm just another collector, so my words shouldn't be taken as gospel.

OK. I see what I believe to be wear generally on the surfaces of both obverse and reverse - not heavy wear, but wear all the same. I'm quite familiar with scanned Morgans, and the differences betweem MS and circ Morgans in scans. On this coin, the peak of the cap, the hair over the temple, and the nature of the finish and marks on the cheek tend to make me believe it's been lightly circulated. Also to be noted are the slightly blurred cotton bolls and leaves just above them.

On the reverse, notable points are the eagle's neck, the claw/arrows area, and the top edges of both wings close to the body.

Some of the marks on the coin, on both fields and devices, are of the type more commonly encountered in curculation.

Having said all that, the usual caveat that it's impossible to accurately grade a coin from just scans or pics applies, and I reserve the right to completely change my mind with the coin in-hand.
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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2006  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okey doke - now I can better understand the reasons for your estimated grade. I'm just an old dumb country boy, and sometimes I have to be taken by the hand and walked through something. Also, I'm still fairly new to collecting, and, until I became active in this forum, I didn't even concern myself with grade. Now, I find it another interesting aspect of this hobby of our's.
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Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2006  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ralph, I think you're looking at a lightly circulated '78S. 1878S Morgans are also generally well struck like the 79S's, so any circulation will be fairly obvious. While the reverse well-defined breast feathers, there's a few marks in the field which do not appear to be bag marks (e.g., there are no round bag marks such as found above the Eagle's head). The giveaway, however is Liberty's hair on the obverse which should show more detail above her forehead and especially over her ear. Compare this coin with the one Bryan posted for the 1879S (he may have also posted one in this thread; in this forum, I test myself by assessing a coin before looking at the other responses to keep my guesses from being influenced by others). Also, there's a few circulation marks on Liberty's face and the obverse field.

If I had to put a grade on it, I'd go with AU-50, perhaps only EF-45 since the obverse which shows more wear than the reverse is most (60% to 75%) of the determining factor in a coin's grade.

Bryan is the 78 VAM expert and he can (maybe already has) give you a better readout on the specific variety.

Fred

... Now to see if I'm at war with the other Morganphiles...
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Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2006  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dave described the difference between a Mint State and higher-grade circulated Morgan very well. There is little I can add except be suspicious of any marks on a Morgan (or any other coin) which aren't part of the minting process. Some dealers will try to pass off circulation marks as "bag marks" and thus try to sell a lightly circulated coin as Mint State.

The purpose of this Coin Grading Practice is exactly what you are doing: getting practice and asking the right questions. It takes a lot of practice to hone grading skills and even after decades of viewing real live Morgans and pictures of Morgans, we can still be fooled. I check into this section of CC as often as I can simply to keep my grading skills sharpened. I've found that if I don't keep at it, I grow rusty and my eyeballs go squeak-squeak .

Fred
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2006  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dont let Fred fool you His eyes are not the only thing that squeaks !!

I can't say how long I've waited for this chance! The pot calls the kettle black! Hee hee hee!

But I agree that this coin is or was lightly circulated, now that does not mean that it passed through any retailer hands,, the effects that are seen on this coin could very well have come from being stroed in a sock drawer or jewelry box,,

but no matter how the rub occured it still reflects as circulation,,

My opinion of this coin is AU-55

RickWay to go Fred ,, and its nice to think that you may just get away with it Huh ?1878-S-Morgan

Touche! The varlet got me. I yield to the man behind the curtain. Score: Rick: 2, Fred: 1
Edited by Morgan Fred
09/24/2006 09:53 am
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2006  02:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
as far as VAM I looked through my 1878-S VAM book and ther is just not enough of detail in the photo's to tell which VAM it may be. If there is any way to look closely at the coin and if you see any doubling snap a picture of that especially the Mint Mark or letters or stars would be a starting point to look then I may be able to help further, but with the pictures provided I have tried to blow them up and everything I know to do and just can't get enough detail to see any doubling or die polishing/scratches in the photo
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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2006  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys. Each time I post a scan, and get feedback on the estimated grade along with an explanation as to how that designation was reached, I feel I've gained a little more knowledge on the subject.
Bryan - I eyeballed this coin under 20x magnification, and nothing jumps out at me as being out of the ordinary.
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2006  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sometimes the differences can be so subtle that if you dont know exactly where to look you can really miss something with 1878 VAM's, thats why I find it so challenging and enjoyable. Some have dead giveaway's that you can spot from a mile away then some are so suttle that you just have to go on intuition alone just because you have looked at so dadgum many that something just doesn't look exactly right
Edited by Bryan1315
09/24/2006 1:32 pm
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Ralph's Avatar
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2006  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can understand about recognizing the differences. When looking at mine, I don't really know what the subtle differences might be - no VAM book. Heck, I'm still learning about grading, and that is an education in itself.
As for looking at many - in another thread I said that I only have 80 Morgans, and most of them are well below the MS grades - upgrades will come in time.
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