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Authenticity Request; Philippino Countermark On Bolivian 8R

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Pillar of the Community
ElleKitty's Avatar
United States
819 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2011  11:24 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ElleKitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hope this is the right place to put this request. Yesterday at the coin show, I picked up two lovely coins from a dealer that is reputable and knowledgeable. However, I was hoping that some of the forum experts might take a look at these counterstamps for me.

The first coin I picked up is a Bolivian 8 Reales dated 1831. The obv. carries a counterstamp that superficially matches the 1832 counterstamp description. I am almost sure that it is genuine, but as I am not an expert on this subject, I still have a few reservations.

Authenticity-Request;-Philippino-Countermark-On-Bolivian-8R

I have uploaded a closeup of the countermark.
Authenticity-Request;-Philippino-Countermark-On-Bolivian-8R

The second coin I have is a 1773 Mexican 8 Reales. It has the Bank of England counterstamp.

Authenticity-Request;-Philippino-Countermark-On-Bolivian-8R

Authenticity-Request;-Philippino-Countermark-On-Bolivian-8R

Moved to World Coins forum - Sap
Valued Member
Pandesalapi's Avatar
Philippines
386 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2011  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Philippine Counterstamped coin on an 1831 Boliviana coin 8 Soles (Soles is slightly smaller in diameter than 8 reales but they are equaled and circulated as 8 reales) is a Very nice 5-4-dot pearl formation and indeed an authentic one. It's becoming scarce with that condition nowadays. 5-4-dot pearl formation means there are five dots on both sides followed by four dots and a dot on the center. The base of the crown of the CS is the normal type 1. That 5-4-dot formation means it was the first type of countermark bearing F.7.o 1832 Thus the host coin 1831 was made into CS for Philippine circulation during 1832, Philippines' 1st year of counterstamping (smaller marks) South American coin after Manila counterstamp machines broke off.
That coin could easily fetch over US$300 as of todate Feb 2011 and by just a mere look of the obverse, no doubt that the coin is definitely genuine.
Valued Member
odentheviking's Avatar
United States
425 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2011  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add odentheviking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am sure Swamper bob will chime in soon, but they look pretty good! Nice find!
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1323 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2011  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now for the English one...
The coin is good, the countermark OK I think. I am concerned about the lack of detail in the portrait on the countermark - at the time of issue there were lots of contemporary fake countermarks, which eventually caused the BOE to recall them and overstrike them as 1804 BOE dollars. It is extremely difficult to tell the fake from real countermarks.
The fuzzyness on the countermark below is caused by my scanner, but you get the idea. FWIW I presume mine is genuine too!

Authenticity-Request;-Philippino-Countermark-On-Bolivian-8R

edited for clarity
Edited by andyg
02/27/2011 5:57 pm
Pillar of the Community
ElleKitty's Avatar
United States
819 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2011  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ElleKitty to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all for your answers. I really appreciate your time and knowledge, both of you being from the countries represented. :) I looked long and hard at both stamps before purchasing, and decided that I was sure enough to pay the prices asked. Looks like I got a pretty good deal on the Philippines one, if it's worth over $300!

Gah! I know the Bolivian coin is valued in Soles, I'm just so used to dealing with Reales that it slipped. Thank you for the correction.

I am waiting for Swamperbob to chime in, definitely. Not only is he so educated on counterfeits, he is also very kind to post a lot of information to go with it. I always enjoy reading his posts, even when it isn't my coin on the chopping block. ;D
Edited by ElleKitty
02/27/2011 6:22 pm
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