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1843 Zs Counterfeit

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Pillar of the Community

Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2011  8:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
27.4 grams. I've included the pic of the edge and close-ups of a couple of cuts. Thoughts?

1843-Zs-Counterfeit
1843-Zs-Counterfeit
1843-Zs-Counterfeit
1843-Zs-Counterfeit
1843-Zs-Counterfeit
1843-Zs-Counterfeit
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2011  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TwoKopeiki Nice counterfeit - fairly common as a variety - most are German Silver. I suspect yours is GS as well because of the stress cracks in the planchet seen best on the edge. The weight is typical for German Silver copies as well. There are many worn GS copies that are overweight some as high as 34 or 35 grams. My assumption is that because the GS blanks had to be cast instead of being cut from rolled strips of metal the forgers lost close control over the weight of the finished product. GS does not like to be rolled unlike copper or silver. Weight control was therefore a bit harder and they are often too heavy.

The edge design is very irregular (typical for this particular forgery) and the overlaps are extremely long (like late Republican issues made on the long steam powered edgers.) The edge in this case may have been doubled (only possible in my opinion on the long edgers). But the long edge laps could point to a mechanized (powered) process being used instead of a 1 by 1 hand powered edger. To me that is a mark of a modern forgery.

The test cuts are clean (no layers) indicating a solid material which also goes along with GS. By the way GS dates the coin to the early 1840s at the earliest based on technology. So a period GS forgery of an 1843 issue is possible.

The age of this particular forgery has been the subject of much discussion between counterfeit collectors for years. It has been a common coin but at the outset, it was rarely seen (by me anyway) in lower circulated grades and it took me years to locate what I believe to be a period cancellation. So is it a modern forgery trying to masquerade as a contemporary one or only a crude contemporary that I missed all the low grade copies of?

It is NOT in Riddell and I have no old documented examples of this fake either, so personally - I am uncertain of the age.

It is the kind of forgery that I personally cap the value at $25 - $35 depending on grade. My notes indicate I have seen over 100 examples of this forgery in the past 10 years.
Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2011  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your response, Bob! Always a pleasure to read and learn.

This one was a freebie, so if you want it, I'm more than happy to shoot it over to you. Is your NC PO box still the correct address?

Cheers,

~Roman.
Valued Member
RealPeso's Avatar
United States
426 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2011  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RealPeso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin TwoKopeiki!

Is the crude/porous plumage also a warning sign on this piece?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2011  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TwoKopeiki Yes I am still here tending my counterfeit eagle farm.

RealPeso I refer to this particular eagle as the "Cob Web" variety. My avitar is the "Chicken Eagle". All happy residents of my farm.
Valued Member
United States
451 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2011  02:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add brokencompass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bob! Your insights are always very informative and helpful. You should create some youtube videos on counterfeit detection(If you already haven't done that) :)
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Nic's Avatar
Philippines
1156 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2011  01:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
although the punched-out letters of the word "LIBERTAD" indicates its a fake, still.. a very nice looking coin!
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