| Author |
 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,353 |
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
96 Posts |
Hi all, I can't seem to find anything on this coin. And no..it's not kushin...any ideas ? To me it looks greek..too thick..and I don't think it's a roman republic coin either. The obverse head looks maybe zeus..but can't be sure. As for the reverse these two look like two mountainers...not a emperor or a god standing with emperor.I have several..some with only one person on the reverse..other with two like this one. Thanks alot ! Patrick Obverse: Image:  214.jpg27.75 KB Reverse: Image: 214c.jpg30.31 KB
|
|
|
|
Valued Member
 Canada
96 Posts |
wow....i was just re(x24)-cheking my other "Unknown coins"..then one word just hit me ! "Phoenician !"....Could that be a phoenician coin ?..i mean if you look at the outfit on the reverse...that sure is or look like a phoenician dress...because I've seen in museums small gold plated statues that had the same posture as the one on my coin.
What do you guys think ?
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
16859 Posts |
I'm not sure about the Phoenician theory. By the time coinage was introduced into the Phoenician territories, the Phoenicians had been thoroughly "Hellenized" - their coins look Greek, and they're listed in Sear's Greek catalogue. Phoenician writing is just about the only concession to their ethnicity, and even that disppears by the time of Alexander the Great. You sound like you're sick of hearing it  but those "dresses" and the way they're holding the spears (or whatever) sure look Kushan to me; that would have been my first guess. I'll admit I've never seen two figures side-by-side like that on a Kushan coin, and Kushan "dress coins" never have Greek-style portraits on the obverse - the guy-in-the-dress is normally the obverse. My next guess would be Roman Provincial, as Roman coins often show two soldiers in that attitude. (though the common tiny bronzes of the later empire aren't a close match for this). It's a pity it's so pitted - there's no trace of writing on it that I can see, and you can't really make out what the two figures are doing. Holding hands? Holding something up? Just standing there looking at each other? Very mysterious. If I come up with any other ideas, I'll let you know. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Valued Member
Australia
205 Posts |
I don't think the coin is greek--I haven't seen this reverse type on greek coins. I also don't think it is Kushan. Perhaps it is Roman Provincial as Sap suggested, then the zeus or Septimus Severus-like portrait would make sense. The reverse looks like 2 soldiers holding spears. I'll have a look and see if I can find a match.
Where did you find this coin? Was it in an uncleaned lot? If so, of what sort?
Peter
Edited by greekandromancoins
10/11/2006 04:32 am
|
|
Valued Member
Australia
205 Posts |
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
96 Posts |
Thank you sap and thank you greek..you got it!:)..But zeus's head on mine is more vibrant and the whole head project happiness..it's like he's smiling..which the vcoin one doesn't...zeus look old there.
O yeah...It's a kushin !..that's what I'm told ..usually. But it's not a kushin.that I was always certain.
It always looked a hybrid coin to me..half greek..half roman.In other words..provincial...but their dress confused me more when I examined it closely. As well as their posture.And the reverse the foot is on the other's foot...did you notice that...ain't that weird?
Greek I got this coin like a year ago from a dealer..hand picked it. I kinda have a radar for strange looking coins like this one :)...even if it wasn't clean and barely readable...i would just know it's something rare...and I buy it.
Thanks again !
Patrick
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16859 Posts |
Good call, Peter! That be it, all right. Listed as number 5897 in Sear's catalogue of Greek. (See how easy it is when you already know the answer!  ) You weren't too far wrong with Phoenicia either, Pat44; Phoenicia is only "just over the hill" from Chalkis. It's almost, but not quite, "Roman provincial" - issued during the rule of the Roman general, Ptolemy. It really is a shame that you can't read the inscription (it's supposed to be on both sides of the standing soldiers) because these coins actually name Ptolemy as Tetrarch. I reckon "hybrid" is a fitting descriptor for your coin, Pat44.  Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
96 Posts |
Aaahh...so it's listed in sears greek catalogue too!..nice. Which sears greek did you use sap ?..volume II Africa and asia one ? because I have europe volume and it only reaches to #3395..no where close to 5897.
I'm thinking of getting the africa one..does it have alot of info on phoenician coins?..But I don't like sears catalogues..i prefer wayne sayles books I have like all of his books..only missing a couple ones.I love his books very easy to read and follow and remember..reading his books is like drinking a hot cup of coco.:) If only he could write a series with coins values like sear's..now that would be great.
And I find SNG copenhagen fascinating. I don't have a copy..thinking of getting one..but it's a bit too expensive I think.Do you have a copy ? What do you mainly use to zoom in on a coin..beside coinarchive..wildwinds..and forumancientcoins?
Thanks for the info !
Patrick
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
96 Posts |
I forgot to ask you about chalkis. I know of two chalkis one in greece and one in syria. I guess you meant the syrian one since phoenicia is now Lebanon. If so chalkis of syria must have been influanced by the phoenician culture..which explains the dress on the reverse of the coin.
There's a also a emperor called chalkis no?..he's usually depicted bold/half bold with a very pointed nose and has a key countermark on his neck.
|
|
Moderator
Australia
16859 Posts |
Yep, Sear volume II. For IDing ancient Greek coins, you really need both - as it's not always obvious which continent your particular coin is from. I don't have anything else to cover Greek coins, apart from the Web. I've got Sayles volume 6 (non-classical cultures). And of course, I made a stupid mistake in the last paragraph above - it was Pompey, not Ptolemy, who was the Roman general. The Ptolemy in question here is King Ptolemy of Chalkis. This is the Chalkis/Chalcis in Syria. Pompey actually fought against him, so "Roman general" is wrong, wrong, wrong. Next time, Sap, get your facts straight.  Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
96 Posts |
|
|
Valued Member
Australia
205 Posts |
Hi Patrick,
I'd definitely recommend having both volumes of Sear, but the coins are also referenced online at wildwinds.com, coinarchives.com, sylloge-nummorum-graecorum.org, numismatics.org//search/index.html (ANS database), amongst others, and in more detail than Sear. Sear only covers the basic types available. For example, you won't find any coverage of the different mints for coins of Alexander the Great. It is often worth considering online databases first, where you can use search terms to find the coin you want before picking up a hard copy reference which requires you to either know which in which area of Ancient Greece the coin came from or to sit through and search all the picture until you find the coin you are looking for!
Peter
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
96 Posts |
Hi Peter,
They are referenced online....but sometimes specially if you wanna sell a coin you can't be 100 percent sure that it is this or that site say it is..because there are mistakes. With me I won't be completely confortable unless I see it in a book...the same coin..same attribution....now I can sell it.
numismatics.org//search/index.html (ANS database) too ?...i didn't know about that site...Thanks :)
It's easier to checking for similer coins on the net since you are able to see and examine alot more at the same time...then looking in a book for your coin..one by one. This is one time consumming thing to do.
I like coinarchive and wildwinds....do you recommand bying the wildwinds DVD ?..is it well organized on the DVD like the site ?
Patrick
|
|
Valued Member
Australia
205 Posts |
Hi Patrick,
Though online references are suspectible to error, don't forget that most of the auction data comes from top-of-the-line numismatic firms, so the attributions are generally quite reliable. Unless you invest hundreds of dollars in BMCRE or RIC, you most likely won't find specific references in Sear for your Romans. The same can be said for Greek coins (in which case you could buy either BMC Greek or one of the SNG's, e.g. SNG Copenhagen)
I didn't know a DVD version existed! At $39.95, it is well worth the cost considering published collections of similar size can set you back hundreds of dollars... The advantage is that you don't need an internet connection to access it, the disadvantage is that you will miss out on updates. Personally, I don't need to buy it as have a very reliable internet connection and the Wildwinds site is hosted on reliable servers (have never had a problem accessing it). The format looks to be exactly the same as the site, in fact it seems to be a duplicate of the site. It's a personal choice whether you want to buy it or not and there's a very good incentive in the fact that the money supports the continuance of an obviously resource intensive project.
The ANS database is definitely quite useful even without photographs for most of the coins.
Peter
Edited by greekandromancoins
10/14/2006 10:51 am
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
96 Posts |
Hey Peter, Yes I'm starting to find these auctions data quiet reliable particularly coinarchives.But still I think having few books around does not do any harm like wayne sayles's. I was surprised myself too! when I noticed by mistake that he have compiled his site into a dvd version. I agree completaly for $39.95 one gets alot more then he could ever get from bying a book or two on coins. Everyone into ancient coins should get one I think whether there's a internet connection or not. Alot of info under the finger tip there. But then comes pricing a coin that you want to sell. I think that takes alot of time visiting sites to get similer coin/coins like you are selling...then to conclude later that that's how much it should be worth without robbing people. I think putting the right price can only be gained with time. I wounder how Sear do it ?...it must take alot of work/reseach from his part I guess...but ...then you hear about coins that were sold in auctions..for millions of dollars..like I bought the other days a Coins Magazine and they have listed some of the modern coins that were sold...one arrived at 7.2 millions !..ain't that crazzy ? Patrick Edited by pat44
10/24/2006 05:57 am
|
|
Valued Member
Canada
96 Posts |
Oooops...i think I made a mistake..a 1933 double eagle have brought $7.59 millions  This is from COINage May 2006 For your pleasure : Image: m3.jpg80.32 KB |
| |
Replies: 15 / Views: 2,353 |
|
214.jpg
214c.jpg
Posted 10/11/2006 04:10 am
m3.jpg
