Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Cres[c] Concordia Fake?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 3,524Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2011  12:21 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all
This came in the mail today with some other coins
its bigger than a crown but only weighs in at 23.8 grams.
any ideas on its origin?

Cres<img src=-Concordia-Fake?" class="userimg" style="image-orientation: from-image !important; max-width:80%;height:auto" name="img" src="http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/uploaded/trout1105/20110426_cca.jpg" border="0" style='cursor:default' onClick='doimage(this,event)'>

Cres<img src=-Concordia-Fake?" class="userimg" style="image-orientation: from-image !important; max-width:80%;height:auto" name="img" src="http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/uploaded/trout1105/20110426_ccb.jpg" border="0" style='cursor:default' onClick='doimage(this,event)'>
Pillar of the Community
Belgium
651 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2011  03:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am afraid this is a fake. This should be a Dutch Silver Rider (zilveren ducaton) from the County of Zeeland. The diameter should be 41 mm and the weight should be 32.78 gram.
Ref. in Krause: Netherlands / Zeeland Ducaton (Silver Rider) KM#57
Valued Member
coinsnpaper's Avatar
Canada
480 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2011  03:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsnpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The piece is supposed to be a silver Rider (ducaton) from the Netherlands state of Zeeland. KM57 . It should weigh 32.78 grams. I suspect a Chinese Counterfeit, not silver- there are details that do not match the care taken with striking these pieces- the nose of the rider, the legs of the horse, the weakness of the middle of the shield design, the beading around the rims, for example.
Also, is the Australia crown the same type of counterfeit? It is weak in many places, and there appears to be casting signs among the lettering, with some weak and strange details. The weight should be 28.28 grams.
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2011  07:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Crown is genuine and comes up to weight.
the other bloke is 10 grams short, Ah well I guess that is what you get when you buy a pig in a poke.
No problem I will put it with all the other forgeries and coppies I have weeded out.
Who knows the forgeries could take on a life of their own and become a whole new coin collecting spectrum.
Happy days
Kind regards Jim
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 04/27/2011  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The fake LOOKS convincing enough. At the obviously low weight, the suggestion is that it is possible that it was made for trade, to defraud. In the contemporary market place, it would not have been weighed every time it was used in a transaction. My guess is that it would be probably made of iron, first copper plated then silver plated. The double plating allows the silver to stick better. Is the fake magnetic?

The fact that it is so underweight makes it an easy coin to detect by a numismatist, such as us in the CCF.

Silver has a density of 10.5 g/cc, copper 8.93g/cc, iron 7.87 c/cc. Proportionally, to the Aussie crown next to it, the diameter of the fake is OK at 41mm. I measured the coins in the picture off the screen with a scale, and calculated the diameters proportionately. For information, the crown is actually 38.5 mm diameter.

Relative to the densities I have indicated, the fake must also be a tiny bit thinner than a genuine Dutch silver Rider.
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  05:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just checked with a magnet out of a hard drive (these are super magnetic) and it isn't magnetic but then again neither are those nasty new copper nickle uk crowns either.
This coin looks too beaten up to be made of the same stuff.
Cleaver buggers these forgers
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  06:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would therefore suggest a copper alloy core.
Edited by sel_69l
04/28/2011 06:57 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2011  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it's like most of the modern counterfeits, the coin is made of a dull vaguely silverish alloy that is closer in density to aluminum than it is to silver, and is not magnetic. It also "rings" at a slightly lower pitch than silver. Usually they cover it up with fake or "applied" patina to make it more convincing, as seems to be the case with this one.

A contemporary forgery meant to fool merchants would be much closer in weight. Even though they were not always weighed, a merchant would quickly spot it with a 10 gram difference.

This has many of the signs of being a modern novelty replica, made with modern computer-controlled processes.
Edited by Numismat
04/28/2011 11:49 am
  Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 3,524Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.3 seconds to rattle this change. Forums