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VDB "Public Outcry"

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jpsned's Avatar
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2200 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2011  11:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jpsned to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
When reading about the 1909 VDB penny, you always read that Brenner was "criticized" for putting his initials on the back, or that there was a big "public outcry" about them being there.

As we all know, this scandal caused the initials to be removed.

Can anyone really explain why people would get their undies in a bunch because the man put his tiny, tiny, TINY initials at the bottom of the coin's reverse? It doesn't make any sense to me.
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Chriscoinmaster's Avatar
United States
337 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2011  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chriscoinmaster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the coin is supposed to be a representation of America not a place for a person to get credit for a picture
that's a way I could see people would get mad but this is only an educated guess
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biokemist6's Avatar
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 Posted 05/10/2011  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The outcry was not so much a public one, more likely a display of jealousy by Chief Engraver Charles Barber whose own initial typically consisted of a single inconspicuous B. Barber was also not pleased with President Theodore Roosevelt "meddling" in Mint affairs. Roosevelt sought out artists from outside the Mint to create new designs. Augustus Saint-Gaudens created the Indian Head $10 and Saint-Gaudens $20. Brenner was commissioned to commemorate the 100th anniversary of Lincoln's birth.

Obviously, Barber did not think outside artists were necessary as he deemed himself something of Mint royalty. His father, William Barber, was the fifth Chief Engraver from 1869-1879. I will also note that Charles E. Barber died in 1917 and the VDB initials returned to the base of Lincoln's bust in 1918.
Edited by biokemist6
05/10/2011 11:47 pm
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hermanwilliams's Avatar
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 Posted 05/11/2011  01:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hermanwilliams to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's the kind of history that I dig.
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2011  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never seen any contemporary evidence of any "great public outcry", but Coppercoins tells me that he has seen newspaper reports from back then with the complaints. As to why there would be dislike, you will note that on all of the other US coins at the time that did have the designers initials it is a single initial, very small, and not prominently placed. On the Lincoln Cent it is three initials, they are larger, and they are rather boldly placed as compared to the other coins. There may also have been some input from Barber, because when they suggested replacing the initials with a single small B, he objected. And it could have been worse, originally Brenner was going to put his entire last name on the reverse.
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BluesZone's Avatar
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524 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2011  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BluesZone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's funny that Barber wanted the VDB off but in the end he made it the most well known Lincoln. 1909s VDB
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lincolncentguy's Avatar
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 Posted 05/11/2011  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lincolncentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great post biokemist! That is perfect. Couldnt say it any better.
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DVCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 05/11/2011  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Barber was also not pleased with President Theodore Roosevelt "meddling" in Mint affairs. Roosevelt sought out artists from outside the Mint to create new designs.
We owe it to Roosevelt--and these gifted artists--for some of the most enduring designs on US coins.
Barber may have better understood minting technology, but his contemporaries breathed life into US coinage.
Edited by DVCollector
05/11/2011 1:25 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/11/2011  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Barber may have better understood minting technology, but his contemporaries breathed life into US coinage.


Barber may have had his virtues, but breathtaking artistic design skills was not among them.
New Member
United States
7 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2011  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chaospup to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VDB on one side, FG on the other no big deal to me. But thanks to the big deal back then I get to spend extra $$ and have to more 1909 holes to fill
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bpoc1's Avatar
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4078 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2011  2:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There was a great article in COINage February 2009 titled " Victor David Brenner". "President Theodore Roosevelt admired Brenner's work so much that he bullied the Treasury bureaucracy into using the artist's Lincoln sculpture on a circulating U.S. coin. The Lincoln Cent debuted on Aug. 2,1909 as the first-ever regular U.S. coin to depict an identifiable person."
The article goes on to explain how some members of Congress began complaining that Brenners initials were to prominent. How the Philadelphia Mint struck 28 million and the San-Francisco Mint produced only 484,000 VDB cents before the Treasury decided to remove the "VDB". It also states that anti-Jewish prejudice help fuel the campaign to remove the initials. Brenner was probably the only Jewish numismatic artist working in the U.S. at that time.
"Brenner also conceived the reverse, with its now familiar pair of stylized wheat ears"
Thank you Dom Yanchunas the author of the article. Brian
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jpsned's Avatar
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 Posted 05/11/2011  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jpsned to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ahhh... excellent information. Thanks everyone!
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pidgeon's Avatar
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8 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2011  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pidgeon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One thing you definitely get from reading coin history - Barber was a first class boob when it came to rejecting others' ideas and preserving his own skin. He also has a legacy for creating the most bland looking designs in all of US coinage. The sad thing is, he probably couldn't fathom at the time that this is how history would remember him.
Edited by pidgeon
05/13/2011 11:47 am
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 05/14/2011  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the other hand Barber was very talented at the actual skill of engraving and knowing what it took to actually get a design to strike up properly. He had the engraving skill, but not the imaginative skills to create really good designs.
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