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 Replies: 28 / Views: 2,690 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Jack made the same point I was trying to earlier (perhaps in another thread) when I said I often never touch money once in pay pal....
Of course most of you much more established than myself, so here is the bottom of the barrel prospective....
Being a bartender however, I personally still have cash on hand often in my situation. Usually anywhere from a couple hundred to three or four hundred most all the time, but never any big money at once, via some of you guys checks coming in every couple of weeks in much larger paying industries....
I still use Mo's to pay my one credit card bill which is never more than 300, my personal limit allowed, lol. I could pay it online, but have never set it up, I just am set in my ways. I also pay my cable/Internet bill and electric in person and funny they don't take debit cards, but you can pay by phone or online. I live in small town and the utilities home office is just one mile away, along my daily commute. as is the cable company....
My girlfriend and I split rent, and I pay that to my landlord personally delivery every month, just a couple of miles away. We need to consider getting a house with the prices the way they are, but my rent is only $590 a month, and great place and location, neighbors trustworthy etc., and hard to put a price tag on being comfortable and happy....
I have an account connected to pay pal like most, and a debit card that I usually only use to buy gold and silver, via feeding into account from my wallet, lol....
I guess my point for many cash physical cash is obsolete, but for many of the world it will always have its place perhaps....
Edited by Silverhawk74
06/12/2011 3:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1064 Posts |
MR Hawk, right you are! You are my exact opposite, maybe becasue I live in the Northeastern Megalopolis - I go for days w/o using any money. Even my youngest in college, when he needs money we transfer money to his account, and he lives off his debit card for expenses beyond those covered by tuition, room and board, etc.
I guess the original question was, if PM's were traditionally used to back currencies, like PRINTED currecnies, how would they apply in a post-WWII financial world where more 'money' changes hands electronically than physically, and seems to becoming more so?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1064 Posts |
Almost forgot, I always wanted to be a bartender myself, but for all the wrong reasons!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
I'm asking how PM backs up 'money' that only exists in transactions, where no actual printed currency changes hands. - JackB The same as with paper currency... it doesn't! AFAIK, no currency is currently backed by any PM. The Swiss Franc *may* be an exception to this but I don't know for sure. Fiat currency, which is what the world uses these days, is only backed by the perception that it is valuable... and by the supposed "full faith and credit" of the issuing country. Not coincidentally, playing cards are also made from paper (for the most part). Is there a connection? You bet! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
I don't think we will ever be on a pm standard again because of the large debt our country has. - afclassic87 If the debt continues to pile up to the point that it collapses the US dollar, then what? What will be left to use as money? Paper that everyone finally recognizes as being completely worthless and unacceptable as payment for anything? Nope. Gold and silver are survivors, if nothing else. They have been around, as money, for thousands of years and they will still be around after the boneheaded politicians and banksters have completely trashed the financial systems of the country and the planet. At that point, the question remaining to us is, "Are you one of the totally out-of-luck masses who did not see this coming or are you one of the few who did and collected PMs... just in case?". Edited by staff: Please do not purposely circumvent the bad word filter. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
It also means that for 6000+ years, money meant PM. When PM was removed, everything went to pot. Every time. - BiggFredd I also agree completely. But this does bring up a rather intriguing question... and that is, "What is the life-span of a fiat currency?". We left the gold standard in 1972, so can we start marking time from that point? If we look at a chart of money supply vs. time, it shows a very rapid increase that started in about 1996. For the 24 years before that, there was only a slight increase in US money supply, even though the 1980s and 1990s were a time of considerable economic expansion. In financial terms, the path to perdition seems to pass through money supply expansion. My thought is that if there is to be a fiat currency that survives the test of time, it MUST be backed by the productivity of the nation that issues it. If not, then it is running on borrowed time which will eventually run out. It always does. So, if my thought is correct, then when the US economy doubles in size from time A to time B, THEN the money supply can be doubled to facilitate trade and commerce... and not for any other reason. Unfortunately, the great monetary thinkers of our time do not agree with this and assume that they can print money as they see fit with no economic or financial repercussions whatsoever. Well now... just how IS that working out for us these days? The proof of the pudding, as they say, truly is in the eating... and right now, the US economy has quite a bellyache.  |
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Rest in Peace
 United States
9104 Posts |
"What is the life-span of a fiat currency?"
It depends on how well it is managed.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
biggfredd: Nicely put. You are looking at the economy from the inside, I am looking from the outside.
What is needed now is how to learn how these two views line up and work together.
Oh, and I like the bit where you have corrected the math! Good work!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Can I ask, though, where did the credit cards get ANY money to begin their little hot potato fraud? Whose money (which doesn't exist) are they lending at high interests? Somebody has to pay for that at the end of the day. They're like loan sharks without any money at all, just networks of people who must accept their terms. I can't understand how anybody is supposed to just "make" money to pay these guys when they're inventing the money and then inventing interest on electronic digits. House of cards.......
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
biggfredd: Nicely put. You are looking at the economy from the inside, I am looking from the outside.
What is needed now is how to learn how these two views line up and work together. There are two basic forms of economics, and that's what you're alluding to. Micro-economics is how tax changes, banking rules and the like affect an individual or single business. Macro-economics is how all those individual systems work together to create "the economy". Quote:
Can I ask, though, where did the credit cards get ANY money to begin their little hot potato fraud? CC are just a different kind of loan. Secured loans (car loans, mortgages, pawn loans) are guaranteed by some form of property. If the borrower doesn't pay the loan back, the lender can get the property instead (repo the car, foreclose on the house, keep the pawned item). Unsecured loans are "your word (or credit rating) is good." These are mostly CC loans, often called lines of credit. If the borrower doesn't pay, the lender is just SOL. CC are mostly open-ended loans by banks, and you can have vastly different credit limits (lines), depending on how each bank analyzes your credit score and your business relationship with them. As to where the banks get them money, go back to my big example. At last call, they had $81,000-8100 that had to be held as reserves. $72,900 can be loaned. Let's say instead of making a half-dozen car loans, they tell 16 people they each have a $5000 line of credit/CC. That's actually more than the bank is allowed to lend ($80,000 vs 72,900), but that's OK, because not everyone is going to max their card out at the same time. As those people buy stuff with their cards, the sellers put the money in the bank, creating more money the bank can lend, etc. Borrowers paying their monthly minimums+ also give the bank more money to lend. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
It depends on how well it is managed. Given the current state of the world's currencies, how well are they being managed? A few don't look too bad... mostly the resource rich countries. The US$ is not looking so good these days. The Euro seems OK sometimes but then the PIIGS come up as a topic for discussion and the Euro seems to teeter a bit.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
With the exception of the CHF and possibly AUD, pretty badly.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
The Norwegian krone and the Canadian dollar seem to be doing OK too... or are they just the best houses in a bad neighborhood?
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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,690 |
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Posted 06/12/2011 4:07 pm
