| Author |
 Replies: 28 / Views: 3,863 |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
Newly back into collecting after >30 yr hiatus. So I decided to check out a monthly coin show last Saturday, the only one I saw anywhere close and it was kind-of on my way to a different destination. Just thought I'd check it out for the heck of it as I haven't been to anything like that as an adult.
Anyway, I was reasonably impressed with the quality and quantity of sellers and collections. I unfortunately got there at the very end when some were packing up and many were "winding down". Thus suboptimal conditions for looking around - felt hurried and many were breaking-down their displays. I was also looking to sell off my 40 worst condition $1 silver certs and was very happy that the "bill specialist" of the group gave me $1.5 each, considering several local coin shops said they were only face-value. I didn't bring the better ones or I'd have asked him to look at those too.
Long story short I was OVERWHELMED by the masses. I didn't find any of the two runs/types I am actively seeking but was attracted to some others. My only buy was a PCGS 1959 Franklin PR64-rated half that the guy had marked at $25, that I offered him 15 for and he took 18 - saying it had been a very slow day. Made me think maybe it can be good for bargains to wait until late in their day for some haggling, LOL.
I know I had no idea what to expect or what to look for. So next run I'd like to be organized and have a clue. Any advice on that front? Should I make a list of desirables with list prices so I have some reference points? Do you take guides or printouts to these things? Or lookup prices you don't know by heart on your phone maybe?
I was expecting "mom&pop" displays and surprised at some of the dealers there that had many 10s of thousands of dollars worth of coins and bills in a VFW-hall type basement!
The one dealer with the most coins I'd be interested in was quoting "grey sheeet prices" and wouldn't negotiate from them at all. Is that a standard practice?
Thanks in advance, I'm obviously on the front end of a "big learning curve"!
|
|
|
|
Moderator
 United States
188440 Posts |
Quote:
Should I make a list of desirables with list prices so I have some reference points? Do you take guides or printouts to these things? Or lookup prices you don't know by heart on your phone maybe? Yes, yes, and yes.  I have lists that I keep in a spreadsheet with the current NumisMedia values. I render the spreadsheet into a PDF and view it on my smart phone (DROID X) using the Adobe PDF Reader. I could view the spreadsheet with a document viewer app, but I found that the reader app has a better (that is, more accurate and speedy) ZOOM function. I also have the NumisMedia site bookmarked in my browser for double-checking the current values. Before the days of the smart phone I would take a printout with me. I would change the font size to 6 in order to fit everything on one page. |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
500 Posts |
Thx jbuck. Sounds like a good idea. I guess one thing I wasn't sure about is if carrying around a list or lists would be like wearing a big SUCKER / MARK sign around my neck or something. I'm a bit leary of all the sharks out there in this bidness. It may be a hobby for me, but for some it is their livelihood and I've found that dynamic can be tuff - in other hobbies/professions of similar ilk.
|
|
Moderator
United States
188440 Posts |
Quote:
I guess one thing I wasn't sure about is if carrying around a list or lists would be like wearing a big SUCKER / MARK sign around my neck or something. I do not think so. Some say that carrying a Red Book is to be avoided, but even that is debatable. For me a list is like a defensive weapon. I am less likely to be taken advantage of when the facts are so readily accessible. I believe knowledge is power and bringing every tool you can is a must. From my own experience, I have seen a lot of people carrying lists and other reference material with them at the shows. You would not stand out if that is your concern.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts |
Carying around a list of coins/currency (and condition) you need or want to buy or upgrade makes you prepared, not a sucker. Ditto for recording what you're willing to pay.
BTW, graysheet is the industry-standard wholesale price guide. Try for between bid and ask as standard practice. Try for bid for an item you can go to the next table and get; ask is good if there are only a few comparable specimens at the bourse. In my experience, people willing to sell below graysheet probably know they've over-graded the coin. Others' experience may vary.
Edited by texasmick
06/13/2011 6:09 pm
|
|
Moderator
United States
188440 Posts |
Quote:
BTW, graysheet is the industry-standard wholesale price guide. Try for between bid and ask as standard practice. I should add that my use of NumisMedia is for the full retail price. That is, it should represent the higher end (ask) prices of the grey sheet. I should also add that there is no shame is consulting more than one price guide, but if you had to choose one (and do not mind paying) you should go for the grey sheet. My choice of NumisMedia is from the combination of convenience (I can easily pull it up on my phone) and price (free). |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
I was expecting "mom&pop" displays and surprised at some of the dealers there that had many 10s of thousands of dollars worth of coins and bills in a VFW-hall type basement! Overheard at a flea market in a block building (guy expert to guy friend): "Now, all those gold pieces are fake. There's not that much gold in the entire world." The same dealer had about $30,000 cash in a five gallon bucket behind the table. Quote:
The one dealer with the most coins I'd be interested in was quoting "grey sheeet prices" and wouldn't negotiate from them at all. Is that a standard practice? Weekly Wipe prices are supposed to be dealer offering/asking prices. Never made sense to me that collectors should be able to buy small quantities for less than dealers are paying. |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
My only buy was a PCGS 1959 Franklin PR64-rated half that the guy had marked at $25, that I offered him 15 for and he took 18 - saying it had been a very slow day Today's food for thoughtHow many millions of dollars have been taken away from the hobby by people paying $30-50 to have a (wishful thinking) $25 coin slobbed, so it could be sold for $18? It would have been better to give it to a kid as a door prize. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2120 Posts |
I carry my iPad tethered to my phone for internet.
Numismedia and google docs is my friend at coin shows :D
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1143 Posts |
Many dealers will share current greysheet prices if you ask. If they wont then I kindly move on down the row and even ask friends for a sheet to look at. Find dealers who are willing to work with you and seek them out each time the show takes place. Repeat customers tend to get favorable treatment.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
Quote:
Today's food for thought
How many millions of dollars have been taken away from the hobby by people paying $30-50 to have a (wishful thinking) $25 coin slobbed, so it could be sold for $18?
It would have been better to give it to a kid as a door prize. I've wondered about that. I have bought several PCGS slabbed coins at less than $21. From what I gather it now costs about $26 plus shipping&insurance just to get a coin certified by them. So how/why would people submit coins worth less than that? Were they done when it was a lot less expensive? Or done en masse, like dealers sending a whole collection in? It doesn't add up to me!   Edited by BuffalosRock
06/14/2011 10:10 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
Quote:
BTW, graysheet is the industry-standard wholesale price guide. Try for between bid and ask as standard practice. So where do the online "price lists", like from Numismedia and PCGS and NGC, rank compared to the grey sheet? I doubt I'll be purchasing that so I'd like a clue as to how close the "readily available" free online price lists compare to it. Thanks for all the help, BTW! |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
So how/why would people submit coins worth less than that? There are two common ways that places like http://cheapslabs.com are kept in business. First is the "crap shoot" coins. If the grader got lucky, you get the higher grade, which might put a $30 coin into a $400 slab. If not, you have a bunch of crap that is good for target practice. Second is a little-known deal where you can (could have) send in a bunch of identical coins, like 50-100 ms64 Franklins of the same date, and they charge $3 per to slob them, which is really about all it should cost if they don't need to authenticate stuff. |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
So where do the online "price lists", like from Numismedia and PCGS and NGC, rank compared to the grey sheet? No price list is accurate, period. Numismedia and PCGS are biased by NGC and PCGS, and often not updated. The Weekly Wipe is manipulated by big traders putting the right stuff out at the right time to be noted. I quit kidding myself about the WW when I was offering $40 for 74s brown pack Ikes several times a day, selling them for $47.50 to another dealer, and the WW never showed them over $19. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1348 Posts |
In regards to people buying a slabbed coin for less than it would cost to have it graded: Go into UPS and tell them you want to ship a package overnight to China. They will tell you $100 (all estimates for the purpose of explanation). Walmart calls ups and has them pick the same package overnight to China for $40. Just like shipping, grading services I'm sure give big discounts to companies who submit 1000's of coins. I'm sure APMEX doesn't pay full retail. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts |
Quote:
So where do the online "price lists", like from Numismedia and PCGS and NGC, rank compared to the grey sheet? First, let me say that I am a fan of biggfredd. I appreciate his cynicism. In the case of GS, though, I don't know of a better, more timely alternative. No price guide describes the market perfectly...there are temporal and region anomalies...and it isn't a commodity market...each coin is unique. I would never trust a price list by a slabber for slabbed coins. It just seems too obvious that it would serve them best to inflate prices of their coins relative to raw coins. I do like Numismedia, though. I think it's pretty good ballpark-wise. And it's handy and free! How does Numismedia compare to GS? Here are three examples: 1. 38D WLH in VG: Numismedia $70, GS $60-$65 I consider this to be right in line with what is happending on ebay...I've been shopping for this coin 2. 1900 Morgan in MS63: Numismedia $78, GS $65-$70 3. 24-D Buffalo nickel in G: Numismedia $7, GS $5.75-$6.25 Speaking of ebay...it might be the best tool to use for current prices because it is the most liquid, transparent market we have access to. On the other hand, there are a lot of bad pictures and a lot of overgrading that lead to discounted bids. I'd use ebay as a determinant of market price carefully. yours, Seth |
| |
Replies: 28 / Views: 3,863 |
Posted 06/13/2011 4:28 pm
