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Moderator
 Australia
16830 Posts |
Just wondering if you American folks could clear something up for me.
I'm told that, in the USA, its illegal to go around making and selling your own "coins" - if you feel an unstoppable urge to do so, then you have to call them something else. I'm thinking particularly of the privately-issued silver coin-like objects known as "rounds".
I'm just curious which laws apply to cover this. I assume they're federal laws, otherwise you'd end up with "coins" that were legal to sell in some states but not in others. Does it come under anti-counterfeiting laws, currency laws, or it's own special "no fraudulent use of the word 'coin'" laws?
I assume the law also applies to foreign "coins" e.g. "rounds" purporting to be coinage of another country? And what's the situation with "coinage" issued by unrecognised states e.g. Hutt River Province, some of whose coins were struck at the "New Queensland Mint" which was apparently somewhere in California? Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
We can buy coins, rounds or counterfeits issued by another country with no problem at all. The issue is coins, rounds or medallions struck here that resemble U.S. coinage. These MUST be marked as copies as almost everything ever struck in the U.S. is still legal tender as few coins have ever been demonitized in this country. Silver rounds or medallions, as some call them, are strictly for bullion investment purposes or a collectable item with NO monetary value so they are NOT required to be marked as copies even though many are. Trying to pass them off as money in a transaction is a crime by law and striking your own coinage in an attempt to defraud or use as legal tender is also against the law. The Knights of the Coin Table at this time are raising funds to have a 2007 Silver Medallion (round) struck. They will be priced and sold according to the cost in having them designed, scultped, dies made and medallions (rounds)struck. Also the cost of the silver at the time of striking so it tends to be a very expensive proposition. This is legal and will become a highly sought after piece of art to some as mintage will be EXTREMELY low for such an expensive undertaking. The dies, for an example, will run $800.00 each. They are legal to make and legal to own but they will NOT carry the words United States of America nor will there be a monetary amount placed upon them. Nothing more than a piece of precious metal (silver), designed by a very well known, if not famous, U.S. artist and sculptor who currently has the Rhode Island and New York Statehood Quarters in his HUGE list of accomplishments so it will be an interesting piece to own. Actually, if the design is feasable, there will be a number of countries listed on the medallion as all Knights/Knightesses country of origin are included in design possiblilities. I also might add it is against our laws to knowingly own or attempt to sell counterfeit U.S. coins or currency. Many groups and cities have struck tokens or wooden coins that can be used as money in certain businesses but in most cases the tokens are of nominal value and can not be used anywhere else nor entered into the banking system. They are kind of like a coupon in a sense and many of them end up as collectables as well. All of our monetary laws are FEDERAL and the federal government is the soul provider of coin and currency for our monetary system. Of course the laws are so full of loopholes that many individuals or businesses are always looking for a way to skirt the law. BUT when it comes to our cash the government ALWAYS wins! Edited by crystalk64
11/07/2006 08:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Sap - I am not an expert on the law, but I know just enough to be dangerous - so take this with a grain of salt.
There are Federal US laws against "counterfeiting" which includes not only US coin and paper but all "monetary instruments" including foreign CURRENT issues. These are enforced over a wide range however. Sometimes, the government uses the law against people making Fantasy issues - like the recent $1,000,000 notes. Other times they go after "Private" issues which are obviously token type issues. The fact that there is no consistency is the real problem.
There are also Federal laws - the Hobby Protection act that cover older no longer current coins and collectibles. Again, there are loop-holes and enforcement is NOT uniform. Under the Hobby act forged coins made before 1973 are NOT covered - as long as they were already inside the US. So importing OLD copies is technically illegal unless they are marked.
The final category of law is fraud. Under these laws both Federal and State it is illegal to misrepresent an item for sale.
So in general, the Hutt River items should be safe because they are Fantasy Issues (like my post on Zamunda). But because any Federal prosecutor can choose to enforce any Federal Law - you could be prosecuted in one Federal jurisdiction but not in another.
The one category of law where prosecution is far more likely is fraud. But even there, you need to have jurisdiction and many times the seller is not within the "reach of the law".
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Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts |
Warning: I'm not an expert on this subject, just have read a book or two. The US has a long, rich tradition of private coins and tokens minted in order to alleviate shortages. These were generally made in weights and metal content identical to the US coin they intended to replace. Some of these "coins" resembled official US coinage more closely than others, some even were marked with a denomination. Although the government sought to discourage the practice (sometimes through litigation), these were not ultimately considered illegal because (1) they were not technically counterfeits of US coinage and (2) the Constitution was interpreted as prohibiting STATES from minting coinage, not individuals. At any rate, the private mints disappeared when the demand for coinage was met, usually through the establishment of a branch mint in the area. If a law has been passed in the past 150 years that now bans private mints, I'm not aware of it. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Is this ever odd. I have lived here all my life and knew most of the things I read here. Of course that is the usualy with most people like me that just never bothered to read up on such things. It is amazing that as kids everyone found, made, bought slugs or blanks and used them as coins. Counterfieters have been around for a long time and I never could figure out whyh anyone would waste time making common coins but they do. So many places do make tokens that look like coins that many do get into change. I don't know how many tokens I've received in change that say Chuckie Cheese or Kiddie Land or a few others. They are cute and do look like coins. Some look better than out coins as far as detail. As usualy I printed this out to show a few people.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
604 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by crystalk64
this time are raising funds to have a 2007 Silver Medallion (round) struck. They will be priced and sold according to the cost in having them designed, scultped, dies made and medallions (rounds)struck. Also the cost of the silver at the time of striking so it tends to be a very expensive proposition. This is legal and will become a highly sought after piece of art to some as mintage will be EXTREMELY low for such an expensive undertaking. The dies, for an example, will run $800.00 each.
Wow crustalk thats a lot of money to make a private round I always thought it was cheap but I'm way wrong Edited by Buffaloboy5
11/08/2006 10:07 pm
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Replies: 5 / Views: 1,159 |
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Posted 11/07/2006 08:28 am
