Threat From Sitting President To Manipulate Silver Price - Page 2

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Author	Replies: 31 / Views: 3,583	Page: of 3

Ceylon62 Pillar of the Community United States 1285 Posts	Posted 08/02/2011 07:46 am The issue with these numbers is that a lot of it is counted numerous times over and over again. Simple example -- Person A writes a contract to sell 10 oz to B. B then hedges the same 10 oz to C. C hedges it out to D and so on. So the initial 10 oz has become 40 oz ON paper when you get to person D. Take it further and some will count the buy side and sell side contracts as 20 oz when in fact it is ZERO oz. Yes a lot of these settle for cash..Ergo very little or no physical moves around in reality. Report this Post to the Staff
stewart Pillar of the Community United States 1126 Posts	Posted 08/02/2011 10:34 am That is bar none one of the most succinct and accurate descriptions of the paper derivatives market I have read to date. Thank You for that Ceylon. I hope you do not mind if I use that to explain derivatives to my God Daughter. She and some others just do not get that when someone buys silver on the market they are not actually buying silver. They are just buying paper with the word silver on it. And by creating these paper derivatives people actually think there is more silver than there really is. Keeping the price artificially low. I showed her the example the week of the 19th of July when "Someone" dumped 250,000,000 paper ounces of silver (1/4th of Global world silver production) 5 times the volume of all silver mined in the US annually was sold in 1 minute to knock silver below $40. Video Showing Take Down http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y--j...yer_embedded The psychology of something like that is to make people believe that there is more of a commodity than there actually is. So that there is less interest in obtaining that commodity. Thinking there is plenty of it at a cheap price and they can always get some when they need it. Report this Post to the Staff
biggfredd Rest in Peace United States 9104 Posts	Posted 08/05/2011 4:48 pm Quote: Never work, Hawk. The NSA and NRO have probably already got you on hi-res sat CAM and GPS, so they know exactly where your stash is buried! Saw a camera which will take pix underwater and mark every shot with GPS position. Under $250. Report this Post to the Staff
Ed_B Pillar of the Community United States 4008 Posts	Posted 08/05/2011 5:39 pm Quote: Saw a camera which will take pix underwater and mark every shot with GPS position. Under $250. Technology... it just gets better and cheaper. This is a 1st class example of that but there are MANY of them out there. Report this Post to the Staff
schockergd Valued Member United States 397 Posts	Posted 08/05/2011 5:48 pm Stewart - Do you think that there will ever come a time where paper gets wiped out and silver can take off? Report this Post to the Staff
biggfredd Rest in Peace United States 9104 Posts	Posted 08/05/2011 9:58 pm We're seeing it already. Spot is x, the gubmint charges x+2 for ASE, but APMEX was paying x+4 and charging x+6 in the "real" world. Report this Post to the Staff
Silverhawk74 Pillar of the Community United States 3670 Posts	Posted 08/05/2011 10:57 pm Oh well, so much for the bury idea, like an old greedy pirate an a treasure map! You are right Ed an Fredd, big brother is alive an well, and a wet behind the ears government agent fresh out of MIT, could probably tell you how many oz. of silver an gold I have down to the gram in about ten minutes or less. George Orwell was dead on, only he should have called the book 2004 instead of 1984.... A smart one would need only infiltrate my ebay, pay pal, accounts, and read my posts here, lol.... I am such a small fish, if the stinkin government ever comes for my stash, you guys might as well get out the cyanide capsule and revolver like ol Hitler and Ava Braun, cause we are in a BBBBBAAAAAADDDD situation, lol.... Edited by Silverhawk74 08/05/2011 11:03 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Ceylon62 Pillar of the Community United States 1285 Posts	Posted 08/06/2011 08:31 am Quote: We're seeing it already. Spot is x, the gubmint charges x+2 for ASE, but APMEX was paying x+4 and charging x+6 in the "real" world. Not True... The CO you mention is an authorized dealer and as such should get it at the $2 or $2.50 premium from the mint. Most B&M's that order by the box can get it box from the authorized dealers for around $3 to $3.50 premium per coin plus shipping. The problem is NOT with the supply of coins rather each and every handler adding $1 to $3 to the coin as it passes through their hands. And IF the US mint ever sells the coins directly to the public cutting out the handlers / middleman that premium will vanish / come down to earth. Greed is the name of the premium game. Edited by Ceylon62 08/06/2011 08:31 am Report this Post to the Staff
biggfredd Rest in Peace United States 9104 Posts	Posted 08/06/2011 11:22 am I don't see where I was "wrong". Yes, they "should" be able to buy from the mint for $2 over, but the simple matter was the mint couldn't meet demand in a timely manner, so they were paying $4 over in the open market simply to be able to fill orders. The Perth Mint sells direct, and I see constant complaints about their high price, ditto the US mint price of stuff like the UHR $20. Report this Post to the Staff
Ed_B Pillar of the Community United States 4008 Posts	Posted 08/06/2011 8:14 pm Quote: but APMEX was paying x+4 and charging x+6 in the "real" world. Think nothing of it, Fredd. As we both know, the world of Alice in Wonderland is a LOT closer to the government's concept of reality than reality is. It must be. That is where the inflation and unemployment numbers get dreamed up. Report this Post to the Staff
Ceylon62 Pillar of the Community United States 1285 Posts	Posted 08/07/2011 12:38 pm Fred, if one is to pick and choose certain points in time for discussion then one has to consider what happens when prices go sideways OR down swiftly. Sideways price action - Less than a year ago one could get ASE's for $1 over spot or at spot regularly and was able to buy 90% coins for 80 to 90 cents on the $1 with free shipping etc on ebay. Down swiftly price action - As recent as May 2011 when silver was in free fall some B&M's refused buy back silver (closed their doors) which they sold to the public at $8 premiums a week or 2 prior. In some cases their buy back prices were $3 to $5 below spot (discount). As per the UHR and other US mint numismatic coins there is plenty of info on the net and on this forum as to why. Report this Post to the Staff
biggfredd Rest in Peace United States 9104 Posts	Posted 08/08/2011 12:30 am Be sure to watch that link Stewart posted. If you can watch it and not agree that silver is being manipulated, one of us is missing a logic chip or three. The proof: After weeks of up and down trading, suddenly in one minute there are 50,000 silver contracts sold. That's 250 million ounces, or $10 billion in silver. Who can this be? It's five times the annual US production, so no way is it a mine hedging against future price changes. In fact, it's the entire world production. In financial terms, $10 billion isn't a huge sum of money, but throw that money against the silver market in one minute, and it quickly becomes obvious that the market is being manipulated. Edited by biggfredd 08/08/2011 12:55 am Report this Post to the Staff
Ceylon62 Pillar of the Community United States 1285 Posts	Posted 08/08/2011 07:44 am My reply was about the ugly side of premiums on ASE's to your post which was only taking into consideration one scenario and has nothing to do with buy / sell trades in the silver market. Best wishes on your manipulation theory portfolio. As the late Paul H used to say.....Good Day. George Patton - If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Report this Post to the Staff
TNG Bedrock of the Community United States 10284 Posts	Posted 08/08/2011 08:31 am What is really inside Fort Knox? Is there an inventory available to the public? When the big deficit deadline was approaching I thought, why don't they sell the gold to get us out of trouble. On a personal level, I think everyone would do something like that if we had the assets, rather than go belly up bankrupt. Tell me we are not storing something like lost US mail in there and there is actually a lot of gold in Fort Knox. Somehow, I don't believe there is much in that place that is not already privately held by the worlds richest people. I think it is probably just a large safety deposit box for the extremely wealthy. Report this Post to the Staff
stewart Pillar of the Community United States 1126 Posts	Posted 08/08/2011 09:08 am schockergd Wrote: Stewart - Do you think that there will ever come a time where paper gets wiped out and silver can take off? Short Answer: Definitely Yes Long Answer: below Ever since I saw the CFTC Meeting video of Jeffery Christian's (of CPM Group, formerly of Goldman Sachs) now infamous comments that Gold and Silver trade is roughly 100 paper ounces to 1 physical ounce in possession in the vaults. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NAL0C6BO-4 And just from personal experience with such entities when they admit to a certain number in a bad situation. The real number tends to be much much higher. But for the purposes of this particular situation lets assume full disclosure and the paper market is at 100 to 1 paper vs. physical in the vaults And Video of GATA Chairman Bill Murphy revealing a whistle blower source who warned the CFTC's Enforcement Division about market manipulation by JP Morgan-Chase and witnessed JPM traders bragging of their exploits. Video 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wIMpe9SjfQ Video 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9bU0r6JP4s Also email exchange between Andrew Maquire a metals trader in London. and Eliud Ramirez, a senior investigator for the CFTC's Enforcement Division. http://gata.org/node/8466 Ever since those events it has been my humble opinion that there was something questionable going on in the gold and silver markets. Once these questions came up on the radar I began watching closer. Being that my chosen hobby (coin collecting) is so closely tied to these two metals. I began watching the spot price charts a little more closely and noticed huge amounts of paper silver being dumped onto the market after certain news events, Jobs Reports and such. I personally believe and this is just my humble opinion that once people are aware that something like this is going on and there is a way to gain advantage over it. They will do so. Until the Paper Market Implodes on itself because more and more people demand delivery of the physical metal. And to fulfill these contract demands they have to go to the market to get the physical. Driving up the price. And they dump more paper on the market to drive it down. Viscous Circle. I am not one that is prone to conspiracy theories. I am just a coin collector that noticed something that was not quite right one day. And followed the bouncing ball of facts down the road. and this is where it has led me. And used information to help build a better coin collection for my son and one day his children. And sharing it with my fellow coin nuts. I am sorry if some of the links are re-posts I just wanted to just show a kind of time line that began my questioning of the markets last year. Terry Report this Post to the Staff
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