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Replies: 7 / Views: 2,111 |
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Valued Member
United States
143 Posts |
Dealers and those who have been dealing for years probably have the best input here, I am NOT doing a poll. My questions are based on my perceptions and observations only. I am looking for realities in buying/selling--if they exist. 1. Given: all TPGs make errors. Question: Which is most reliable on Gold Eagle? Which on Silver Eagle? (Note I didn't say "consistent;" SGS is consistent, but...) 2. Given: there is a public perception. Question: Do you as a seller or dealer find a rough percentage difference in what the above coins sell for based on TPG slab? Sometimes I see PCGS go at 50% more; sometimes 10-20%; sometimes not at all. Is it just public mood on that day (full moon!!)? Thanks, Seth
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Hi Seth, I'm not a dealer but I will take a shot at your questions. PCGS is simply much tighter than ngc on modern submissions, and thus carries a premium. NGC can be tougher in certain series such as Frankies and the fbl designation, but that is an exception. Tougher service, higher price. 
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Valued Member
United States
344 Posts |
Seth here is a link to some very fine reading By Ed Kiershon on this subject that should be very educational for you & others on slabs. And the Crack Out Of the Slab Game! http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Ciga...,448,00.htmlHere is an excerpt from the article in itself is educational about the population reports as in his judgment bogus. Prices of American coins are significantly influenced by rarity, and to determine the number of certified mint-state coins in each U.S. date and series, consumers have long trusted the "population reports" issued by grading services. Subscribing to these census tracts, however, may have limited value, according to Travers and other critics, who charge that they've been "skewed" by the wave of resubmissions unleashed by the crack-out game. "Novices heavily rely on these reports when buying, and that's a big mistake," says Travers, who, as an expert witness and consultant, has assisted the Federal Trade Commission in its various attempts to curb coin industry abuses. "Say someone resubmits the same coin 147 times. Then, after it's sold to a dealer, it's again resubmitted another 200 times. All this just adds to the 'population,' and so while there may be only one of these coins in existence, it seems like there are 347 of them. This is one area where a novice has to depend on a dealer's honesty, as he can't be an instant expert on rarity."
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
mishap-coins, that is why the TPG's ask for the inserts back from cracked slabs......to attempt to keep the pop reports somewhat accurate. Are they accurate? No more than the priceguides, but they do at least get you in the ballpark. JMHO.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Heh. Population reports being skewed by resubmissions. Think about it. Resubmissions artificially inflate the population numbers. The population is actually lower, the coin actually rarer, than the figures indicate.
Higher pops=lesser rarity=lower prices for the novice buyer, and any other buyer. I like and respect Scott Travers, but I can't understand why he's taking this position. It's the seller, not the buyer, who is hurt by inflated pops.
And it's the sellers, the dealers, who have created the situation. I am amused by the irony.
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Valued Member
 United States
143 Posts |
Thanks, all. Sure I've read all that stuff and some of Travers' books. I guess we'll never know why some fetch more.
Using the Hadleydog theory and past statements (elsewhere) that ICG is tougher on gold, why am I not seeing it out there in the Eagle and Buffalo wars? Everyone scared to send to them and a get a real grade? Probably not--it's all about marketing (!?!?!)
As to populations, I just got two Buffalos graded by ANACS. (Even though they say 70 and no one believes them, I got them at RAW price.) On the front they show 326/1500 and 328/1500 respectively. How do they know when the year's not over? Kind of puts populations in question here, doesn't it?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
quote: Originally posted by seth
Thanks, all. Sure I've read all that stuff and some of Travers' books. I guess we'll never know why some fetch more.
Using the Hadleydog theory and past statements (elsewhere) that ICG is tougher on gold, why am I not seeing it out there in the Eagle and Buffalo wars? Everyone scared to send to them and a get a real grade? Probably not--it's all about marketing (!?!?!)
As to populations, I just got two Buffalos graded by ANACS. (Even though they say 70 and no one believes them, I got them at RAW price.) On the front they show 326/1500 and 328/1500 respectively. How do they know when the year's not over? Kind of puts populations in question here, doesn't it?
Those arent pop numbers. Someone had ANACS grade a large group of coins, slabbed all of the 70s, and that person(company) then resold them. You just have the 326th and 328th out of a group of 1500. HSN,S@H, etc. put together sets like this to give the illusion of a "limited series" but it is just a marketing gimmick  Glad to hear you only paid raw money for them though. I bet the person selling took a loss...
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Valued Member
 United States
143 Posts |
Whether he took a loss or not depends on what the mint actually charged distributors, etc. They did enclose a flyer offering the very same one at $50 more+shipping.
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Replies: 7 / Views: 2,111 |
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