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These coins are not well known and not many reference photos are available. I have experienced difficulty finding specimens of these coins and I solicit photos (posted here) of any examples members of this Forum may possess. I also ask members to be on the lookout for examples and post information relating to them. In AD 293 Diocletian instituted the Tetrarchy: government of the geographically divided Empire by four interacting rulers - two Augusti assisted by two subordinate Caesars which each Augustus would personally select. Diocletian, Augustus of the east, selected Galerius Maximian as his Caesar and Maximian Herculius, Augustus of the west, selected Constantius as his Caesar. The first assignment given Constantius by Maximian was to remove Carausius, the usurper Augustus of secessionist Britain, and restore that former possession to the Empire. Constantius thereupon beseiged and captured Boulogne and then wrested coastal Gaul from Carausius. Constantius now set about planning the invasion, occupation and restoration of secessionist Britain to the Empire. One of the first orders of business for Constantius was to insure that a supply of reformed aes coinage - now the commonplace legal tender of the Roman Empire - was available for use not only by his occupying force, but also by the British civilian populace. To that end Constantius established a Continental Mint (exact location unknown), manned by Lugdunese workers, to produce this invasion coinage - unmarked (i.e. without a mint mark) folles issued in the names of Diocletian & Maximian Herculius as Augustus and Constantius & Galerius Maximian as Caesar. Pre-invasion coinage produced at unknown Continental Mint by Lugdunese workers: RIC Volume VI, Lugdunum, Group I, (iv), folles, Class I, No. 14-21c. 296, 10.5-8.75 gm, reverse axis 6 or 12 o'clock Laureate head, right, with bare neck truncation.
14a - DIOCLETIAN
 
IMP C DIOCLETIANVS PF AVG .................................. GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
Actual size of coin
14b - MAXIMIAN HERCULIUS
 
IMP C MAXIMIANVS PF AVG .................................. GENIO POP -- VLI ROMANI
Actual size of coin
17a - CONSTANTIUS
 
FLA VAL CONSTANTIVS NOB C .................................. GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
Actual size of coin
17b - GALERIUS MAXIMIAN
 
C VAL MAXIMIANVS NOB C .................................. GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
Actual size of coin
James Edited by jamesicus
09/02/2011 2:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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Yes, that is not one of the invasion coins, bobbyhelmet -- note the cuirassed bust and the titulature -- I will attribute it later. Thanks for the try though.
James
BTW, here is the Pierre Bastien note from my web site applicable to this series (Dr. C.H.V. Sutherland, author of RIC VI points out that Dr.Bastien should be followed here):
I wish to thank my fellow "Romano-British coinage" enthusiast and noted numismatist, Lee Toone, for granting me permission to quote his contribution to this subject: "Bastien, in an annexe to a later work, Le Monnayage de L'Atelier de Lyons (Wetteren, 1980) - Annexe Atelier Continental Sans Marque, pp.125-128 and Plate LXIX, revisits this issue. He reaffirms his view that these coins were minted at an unknown continental mint prior to the invasion and concludes that, in reality, there are only four types RIC 14a, 14b, 17a and 17b. The others listed under Lyon by Sutherland are erroneous, either unofficial, lightly struck LA or LB coins or unmarked London coins. He goes on to catalogue these four types each with two different versions; the first 'set' with large heads ('effigies larges') and the second with small heads ('petites effigies') .........."
James
Edited by jamesicus
09/02/2011 10:20 pm
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I looked earlier on your site and thought it was RIC VI London No. 33, 303 onwards - I do now see the difference in the cuirass though.
Edited by bobbyhelmet
09/02/2011 8:05 pm
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Valued Member
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167 Posts |
bobbyhelmet you wrote: "I looked earlier on your site and thought it was RIC VI London No. 33, 303 onwards - I do now see the difference in the cuirass though." No, I think your attribution is a good one - a nice unmarked London mint #33 follis too - cuirass configurations often changed subtly with new dies. And of course it is a coin depicting Galerius Maximian -- not Maximinianus as asserted by the ebay seller. (And not a Lugdunum "Invasion"coin) Titular inscriptions for Galerius: * C VAL MAXIMIANVS NOB C * MAXIMIANVS NOBIL CAES * MAXIMIANVS NOB CAES * MAXIMIANVS NOBIL C * MAXIMIANVS NOB C RIC (Roman Imperial Coinage, Volume VI) uses the appellation Galerius Maximian while most reference authors, collectors and coin dealers use the appellation Galerius. Caution should be exercised when attributing the coins of Galerius & Maximian due to the similarity of the name forms. Actually, the differentiation is quite easy: Coins bearing the titulature IMP and MAXIMIANVS can only be those of Maximian Herculius, while those bearing the titulature MAXIMIANVS and NOBIL CAES, NOB CAES, NOBIL C, et al can only be those of Galerius Maximian - Maximian was only Augustus during this period and Galerius was only Caesar. Here are my two RIC Volume VI, LONDON, Galerius #33 coins from two different dies:
 
MAXIMIANVS NOBIL C................................... GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
 
MAXIMIANVS NOBIL C................................... GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
James Edited by jamesicus
09/02/2011 9:40 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
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Fascinating post tying history to the respective coinage!  |
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Valued Member
United States
167 Posts |
bobbyhelmet wrote: >>> 2 1/2 hrs left on this one on ebay. Not as good as some of yours but the only one I've been able to find. <<< This nicely centered Galerius London Mint (unmarked) follis -- which from the photographs appears to have a nice untouched patina -- went for $27.77 which I think is a very good price for this nice coin -- I would have paid twice that amount for it. Click here to see ebay listing. James Edited by jamesicus
09/03/2011 2:14 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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2838 Posts |
I was very tempted to bid but not sure of values so decided to wait a bit and look at a few more examples to get a better idea.
Its a nice looking coin - a lot bigger and heavier than I thought too.
I'll keep my eyes open and post here if and when I come across anymore.
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Another post invasion one like yesterdays - Diocletian this time though: http://www.ebay.com/itm/913LE0-Dioc...t_1889wt_905I see how yesterdays price was low though - the above is, I believe No. 28a. Going back to your earlier quote, what do you believe the lightly struck LA and LB coins are, just standard issues? |
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bobbyhelmet wrote: >>> Another post invasion one like yesterdays - Diocletian this time though: http://www.ebay.com/itm/913LE0-Dioc...t_1889wt_905I see how yesterdays price was low though - the above is, I believe No. 28a. <<< Yes it is a No. 28a -- from the photos looks like a nice coin -- well centered with good surfaces -- easily readable inscriptions -- just thy way I like 'em! -- I haven't bought any coins for the past three years or so, but that price looks a little high to me (slow economy, etc.) -- I would offer $90. >>> Going back to your earlier quote, what do you believe the lightly struck LA and LB coins are, just standard issues? <<< Yes regular issue folles -- but Vol VI Lugdunum LA/LB coins are rarities in their own right and command high prices James |
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Here is my nicest specimen of RIC VI, Londinium, No. 28a as depicted on Plate 1, RIC VI:
 
IMP DIOCLETIANVS AVG .................................... GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
Actual size of coin
weight: 10.5 grams
James |
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2838 Posts |
A beautiful coin James - fantastic quality. Here is a Diocletian LA coin that I was hoping to snipe on ebay - sadly I was out-sniped! http://www.ebay.com/itm/35048811077...t_500wt_1156I know its not strictly speaking an invasion coin but I'm having trouble finding any of those for sale at all! |
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Valued Member
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167 Posts |
Quote:Here is a Diocletian LA coin that I was hoping to snipe on ebay - sadly I was out-sniped! I know the feeling well! Quote:
I know its not strictly speaking an invasion coin but I'm having trouble finding any of those for sale at all! Me too! Regardless of the RIC rarity rating (which is very unreliable anyway) I have found the Invasion coinage, along with the LON marked folles, to be the most elusive. In the twelve years I have been seeking them I have only encountered eight and I bought all of them! James |
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Edited by bobbyhelmet
09/09/2011 6:22 pm
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Quote:
something looks amiss about the style on the top one I'm guessing this is due to the fact that these post invasion coins were made mainly by the original London mint employees rather than shipping in any of the Lugdunum workers? The British workers would have been unable to stop themselves cutting dies with at least a hint of the stylistic designs of Allectus and Carausius. Long necks, strange proportions etc |
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167 Posts |
Ian wrote: Quote:Another post invasion London coin - Diocletian: http://www.ebay.com/itm/11067544756..._1468wt_1139And a very well priced Galerius post invasion London coin here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/32059697183..._1898wt_9055 .................... IMO both are nice coins from the photos, Ian -- correctly attributed -- well centered -- good surfaces -- easily readable inscriptions -- again, just thy way I like 'em! The latter two coins in your posting merit a lot more discussion which I will start in a separate post. BTW, Ian, there are two somewhat stylistic differences for RIC Volume VI, Londinium, Group I, class II (small head on a tall neck) DIOCLETIAN, No. 6a coins as illustrated below. The one I have identified as Die A (there were undoubtedly several dies, I am just using this for discussion purposes) is the one illustrated on Plate I in RIC, Volume VI and therefor may be considered the type. Die B coins, featuring a bust with a somewhat larger head and shorter, thicker neck are frequently encountered variants.
RIC Volume VI, Londinium, DIOCLETIAN, No. 6a (die A)
 
IMP C DIOCLETIANVS PF AVG .................................. GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
nominal size of coin
RIC Volume VI, Londinium, DIOCLETIAN, No. 6a (Die B)
 
IMP C DIOCLETIANVS PF AVG .................................. GENIO POPV -- LI ROMANI
nominal size of coin
James Edited by jamesicus
09/09/2011 10:31 pm
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Replies: 27 / Views: 4,402 |
Posted 09/02/2011 7:55 pm
