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Morgan 1881 S Had Been Bought In London This Week

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Valued Member

Austria
391 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2011  05:01 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Cmcart to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Morgan 1881 s. Had been bought in London (The shop is near the British Museum ) this week by my daughter - I'm new to Morgans. I still have some Morgans and I'll introduce them later.

Just wondering what you guys think about this coin?


Morgan-1881-S-Had-Been-Bought-In-London-This-Week
Morgan-1881-S-Had-Been-Bought-In-London-This-Week
Valued Member
Austria
391 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2011  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cmcart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And how do you think
the quality of the coin?
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Fuzzy317's Avatar
United States
14463 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2011  08:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the quality looks great. I can't really tell if there are any wear marks. The brightness of the coin along with a few dark spots on the obverse at the P and at the base of the neck, would make me suspicious that it might have been cleaned.
Valued Member
Austria
391 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2011  09:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cmcart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks!


Is there a way to reach an unequivocal conclusion - cleaned OR not cleaned - Prices have been 42.5 pounds
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2011  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With coins, it can be hard sometimes to tell if a coin is original or has a light cleaning. The more obvious cleaned coins will often have this uniform shine and hairlines all over the coin. When it comes to higher grade coins, the luster is often dull and lifeless. I have included a link to a picture of a coin that I found off Heritage of a more obvious cleaned example.
http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%...md%5btrue%5d
http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%...md%5btrue%5d
From the looks of your coin, it does not seem like it has been cleaned. The spots that Fuzzy is talking about seem to be carbon spots though they are not the result of contact with carbon but sulfur. The presence of carbon spots does not mean definitively that a coin has been cleaned. Your coin looks mint state and may be a high MS grade as the surfaces especially the face do not seem to have many marks.
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2011  11:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to CCF.
Valued Member
Austria
391 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2011  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cmcart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks D0ubl3Eagle!
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CCTrader's Avatar
United States
54 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2011  06:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CCTrader to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice coin. Well worth the price. I don't think it has been dipped.

My guess MS65.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2011  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see no reason to believe it's been dipped. The other poster made that suggestion, I think, because of the difference in luster between the obverse and reverse - the reverse shows Prooflike qualities while the obverse does not.

Yes, this is one potential outcome of dipping. It's also a common appearance for undipped Morgans - dies did not live their entire lives together, and it's quite natural for a brand-new reverse die to be paired with a worn obverse. I would be looking for signs that the obverse die was worn and much older than the reverse - there should be a noticeable difference in strike quality between the two.

The coin may have been dipped. Done right, no-one will ever know for sure.
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Austria
391 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2011  10:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cmcart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks CCTrader & SuperDave
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fenton's Avatar
United States
4989 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  10:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin MS-64+ or MS-65. Impossible to say whether it has ever been dipped but, with no hairlines, this would not be flagged as cleaned.

(many "blast white" Morgans are dipped; doesn't really hurt the grade much so long as they have only been dipped once or twice)
Valued Member
Austria
391 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2011  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cmcart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks!
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Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2011  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WOW, MS-61, I would have expected a MS-63 at least. I think they were a little harsh on this coin because they are so used to seeing MS-65-MS-68 of this date/mm combination pretty regularly and the ones that are not in super high grades get treated poorly by the graders because they are spoiled by the higher grade ones coming through
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2011  12:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think Bryan is correct, its a very harsh grade for this coin, yet the 1881-s is known for such superb strikes in general if one were to compare this coin to others graded MS61's , There is no comparison, I thought maybe MS64 and MS63 for sure....MS 61 is a slap in the face....one must remember there is .."NOT equality in grading"... graders go by the year and known issues of every year in determining the over all assigned grade given...while there is more than a few books and online examples of grades and photo's to reference your coin to for a grade..it does not apply to the grader MS61 from NGC is a cold slap in the face in my eyes. when I have seen thousands of coins from them in far worse shape with better given grades...
At this rate, and your location, I would only buy coins that have been graded by the top 3 grading companies...which have values you can know and not over pay for...
the price of a raw coin, value of raw coin subject to the grade plus submission fees is to much...unless you absolutely get it for far less money, know the year and its known assigned grades..by the way PCGS and probably NGC also shows the known numbers of all years they have assigned grades to at there respective websites...these facts are something you can see and review on there website...All coinage is a learning curve...Each denomination has its own identities and quirks...grading standards and issues for any given year in there series...... Take this as a learning experience, as the Morgan series is a wonderful coin...By online on ebay will be be far cheaper than in Europe....By certified coins from the major dealers... here...it will cost you less and you will get what you pay for...most likely in your area they will be worth more to you there than they are here to us in the USA as they are plentiful here, not so there..you will pay more there for the same coin by far...as you now know...
In the mean time...Here's a big from all of us here at CCF, G....
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2011  01:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just read your previous MS65 PGCS 1881-s slabbed coin.Thread.....looks a mite baggy and still gets the MS65 grade....Think the last coin you bought in London, was in better condition than the slabbed one...
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