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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,058 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
And by "interesting," I mean very baffling and unscientific.  I found this thing randomly while doing research. As a challenge to a collector here who knows their bullion--what would you say to help people from getting ripped off? That could be a very useful article to have on CCF.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
I would imagine that there are a number of trace additives that could affect the color that results from heating a coin or bar to test it for silver content, so agree with you that this may be an indication but it is not proof of any kind.
There are two very simple tests that can be done on a bar or coin to determine if it is silver and neither of them was mentioned. One is to use a small magnet to see if the supposedly silver item will stick to it. If it does, it contains iron or nickel, both of which are magnetic. The other is to measure the size of the item, calculate its volume in CCs, and then look on a chart of metal densities to see what you have there. Pure silver is relatively heavy at 10.49 g/cc. Neither of these tests is foolproof but they do give good indications of whether an object is actually made of silver or not.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
The one item marked 15gr 999 silver wasn't misleading. It told you exactly what to expect, 15/480, or 1/32oz of silver.
Overall, a disorganized presentation.
I checked a link recommending them and offering cheap shipping. Expired about 18 months ago.
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Valued Member
344 Posts |
That was one of the worst how to videos ever.
Wanna see if its real silver? acid test. Done GG.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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The one item marked 15gr 999 silver wasn't misleading. It told you exactly what to expect, 15/480, or 1/32oz of silver. True enough, Fredd, but to the 99.9% of the population that has zero idea of what a grain is, it is misleading. It's like those TV commercials that show a gold plated double eagle copy that they trumpet as having "14 mg of PURE GOLD!". They say the words PURE and GOLD multiple times (hint, hint) and are betting on the fact that most Americans do not know what a gram is, let alone that a milli-gram is 1/1000th of that small quantity. For the benefit of anyone on here who does not know what a grain (gr) is, it is 1/7000th of a standard (not a Troy) pound or 437.5 grains per ounce. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10045 Posts |
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That was one of the worst how to videos ever.  I was just amazed at how quick they were at destructive testing that proves nothing at all.  |
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Valued Member
United States
302 Posts |
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For the benefit of anyone on here who does not know what a grain (gr) is, it is 1/7000th of a standard (not a Troy) pound or 437.5 grains per ounce. Troy conversion factors are: Pound = 5760 grains Ounce = 480 grains Pennyweight = 24 grains |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
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True enough, Fredd, but to the 99.9% of the population that has zero idea of what a grain is, it is misleading. If 99.9% of the population has zero idea of what a grain is, they should do something about their ignorance. Grains are the universal weight, identical in both avoirdupois and troy, and have been used around the world for thousands of years. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
For the benefit of anyone on here who does not know what a grain (gr) is, it is 1/7000th of a standard (not a Troy) pound or 437.5 grains per ounce.
And 1/480 of a tr oz, 1/5760 of a tr lb. The grains are identical, making the types of ounces directly convertable. Grams are only approximately convertable to oz, but directly convertable to carats. A gram = exactly 5 carats. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
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Grains are the universal weight Not in Asia it isn't. Quote:
The grains are identical, making the types of ounces directly convertable. Any scale is directly convertible with any other scale through the use of fractions, or enough decimal points. "Conveniently" is what you are referring to I think. Grams is the SI unit for measuring weight "scientifically", and has largely not been adopted for industrial use (in North America at least) again because of the convenience to stick to customs. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Grains are an exact portion of ounces. By definition.
Grams are exactly 5 carats. By definition.
Others are calculations using approximations.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
1 grain is precisely 64.79891 milligrams
so 1 grain is directly convertible in milligrams or grams or ounces or the chinese liǎng
Given enough units anything can be precisely measured (except for pi, or the speed of light, but those aren't exactly "things") so it's convention, standards, and convenience more than anything
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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If 99.9% of the population has zero idea of what a grain is, they should do something about their ignorance. Absolutely... but probably not very likely. I never saw grains used in any scientific work, although it is common to use them in the pharmaceutical industry. It wasn't until I got into target shooting and ammo reloading that I got into using grains as a unit of weight. Everything in reloading is in grains of powder or bullet weight. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Let me approach this slightly differently.
I invent a new system of weight. The base unit is the Biggfredd. It is precisely 20 stone or 280 av pounds. It can also be expressed in kg, but only by conversion, accurate to however many decimal places you choose.
It is possible to weigh PM by grams, or to convert grains of PM to grams, but the latter isn't as accurate as grains. The reason for this is grams are a new system of mass measurements, invented around 150 years ago.
Grains, OTOH, are the original way to measure mass, and have been around for five millenia or so. Both troy and avoirdupois systems use the same grain, and not a conversion from grams, which didn't exist for 98% of the history of PM.
My point is that, as you discovered, if you are going to reload bullets, you need to learn about grains, because that's the standard for measurement.
If you're going to invest thousands of dollars in PM, you need to know that 15 grains is not close to a half ounce.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
Again though, it's standards/conventions/convenience, derived through history or not, and not a matter of precision.
If anything, grains is the less accurate of the 2 because you can't have fractions of a grain. Grams can be infinitesimally small to suit the measurement at hand. If I wear of 32.399455 milligrams of gold by through handling, I can tell you exactly how much was lost when to be precise, one would be choosing between rounding up or down a grain.
I apologize for getting hung up on the semantics and will hang the argument, having been brought up on the metric system it's just unnerving to read that grams can be less accurate than any other form of measuring mass. Less convenient given the common practices in place yes, but not less accurate.
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Valued Member
United States
302 Posts |
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If anything, grains is the less accurate of the 2 because you can't have fractions of a grain. Not correct. 480 doites = 20 mites = 1 grain 1 troy pound = 12 troy ounces = 240 pennyweights = 1821 carats = 5760 grains = 115,200 mites = 2,765,000 doites 1 doite = 1/24 mite = 1/480 grain = 0.000135 gram For all practical purposes no one needs better accuracy than that. |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,058 |
Posted 09/11/2011 12:04 am
