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1972-D LMC

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Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2012  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list
Could someone explain how this coin was actually created? I don't know a lot about error coins like this.

From what I've read so far, it sounds like something like this happened: Planchet is positioned on the die. The upper die strikes planchet, which then sticks to the obverse die. My coin enters. Obverse die, now a capped die, strikes through the stuck planchet, and makes an impression on my coin.

Now this is where I'm really fuzzy. My coin isn't properly ejected and is struck again by the capped die, but only after the capped coin rotated some? Then my coin is properly ejected?

When explaining this to me, don't be afraid to pretend your words are coming from a sock puppet as I am very new to coins.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2012  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
LOL Sock Puppet.

You've about got it. The capped die has struck several other coins before it strikes your coin. The reverse devices are not flattened out and this is now called a generic die cap as the reverse devices/Memorial is now flattened and the cap is starting to come loose from the die, but just rotating at first. You coin was struck while the cap had rotated a little making the imprint of the die struck through the cap now with two sets of dates on the cap. Then your coin is struck and shows two dates and the bust rotated a little. Eventually the cap is removed or the cap continues to disentigrate or eventually falls off. Then the coin start looking normal again. You've almost got it though.
Valued Member
United States
131 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2012  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chadcsx to your friends list
This is a prime example of why we do what we do! Great find!
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2012  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list
Coop,

Thanks so much for replying to my latest post, and to the previous ones.

Okay, first off, the deteriorating die means the reverse devices are flattened out? And this is called a generic die cap?

Secondly, my coin was only struck once, but it was the rotation of the cap during the strike that made the doubled date?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1256 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2012  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add timsumrall to your friends list
1. Not a deteriorating die but rather a deteriorating die cap (a cent stuck on the die). For discussion on your cent I would say the dies were fine. But yes it's been hammered flat and so doesn't show the Memeroial anymore. The first cent struck has a very impressive Memorial reverse on the obverse side. Where's that bad boy

2. More strikes occurred flattening the cap to paper thin. Now "Struck through" starts where you see the obverse through the paper thin cap. The struck cents look normal except super mushy looking.

3. The cap is imprinted with the obverse and then rotates and your cent is struck through leaving the regular detail plus the details left on the cap from a prior strike.

In the case of Adam's cent, rotation was happening on perhaps every strike leaving more and more imprints on the cap.

Nice find!
Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2012  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list
As others have said, the 1972-D cent was struck once through a rotated, late-stage die cap. The presence of normally-oriented, incuse design elements is characteristic of such errors.

The floor of a late-stage die cap is very thin, and that thin metal has molded itself to the recesses of the die face. The metal filling each recess is slightly thicker than the portions of the die cap covering the field. That's because effective striking pressure is slightly lower in the recesses. When a cap shifts out of position, those thickened areas are driven into the next planchet, producing the normally-oriented incuse elements.
Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
01/28/2012 09:58 am
Valued Member
United States
318 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2012  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverEye to your friends list
This has to be a one in a billion occurrence. I am amazed at the level of detail that you forensic coinvestigators can give about precisely how this error was made. You people are awesome, I have much to learn.
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2012  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list
I'd like to thank all the experts for the input and patience with me. I can say I actually understand how it was made.

I hate to ask the same question twice, but does anyone have any idea on its value, or how I might go about valuating it? Even a rough dollar range would be helpful.

I guess I need to know if I should be treating this coin differently than other coins in the (very low value) collection I am beginning. Should I have it graded and slabbed (I'm guessing not), or just keep it in a 2x2 in a coin box?

Thanks
Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2012  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list
Errors are worth what people are willing to pay for them, and are the hardest sort of thing to value, partly because sometimes each one is unique. Some errors can be rare, but are not very interesting (modern rotated dies are pretty rare, but there are only a few collectors), but others are spectacular but relatively common (off-center strikes, for instance). Yours is both relatively rare, and spectacular.

If I had to wager a guess, I'd say it's certainly worth more than $50, maybe more than $100. But it's really worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. Maybe at auction it would fetch a lot less or a lot more.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2012  4:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Seems like Adam got something in the area for his coin. A capped die collector would jump for this one.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2012  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list
Value depends on the clarity and completeness of the incuse design. Since it's mainly the date that is affected, I'd guess it would be worth between $35 and $50.
Error coin writer and researcher.
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2012  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list
Well, I just wanted to write a quick note thanking everyone for their input. I'm amazed at how knowledgeable forum members are.

Thanks everyone for all your help.
Valued Member
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2012  11:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn984 to your friends list
Oh, and since this is my first serious roll find, it's going into my collection. No plans on selling it.
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United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2012  05:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list
I would put it in a hard plastic holder.I put my "better"finds in them.
John1
Pillar of the Community
United States
2295 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2012  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
You don't see many coins like that for sale.
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