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 Replies: 37 / Views: 4,269 |
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Moderator
 United States
188952 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
I have to side with Dave he did nothing wrong, even going back to where he bought the coin is not a problem. I have in the past bought coins on ebay,from coin shops,coin dealers and private people that I have profitted on, I have no guilt no remorse and no regrets for any of them. I guarantee you that when dealers buy they do not buy at full value they buy in order to make a profit and that profit margin is determined by many different things, silver value,numismatic value and all of that is calculated based on that days market. there is nothing dishonest,wrong or immoral about making a profit even if that profit is 500% over purchase price. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
Interesting read, there jbuck. No matter what the guy said, I find it hard to believe that the dealer he made the purchase from (as well as the near nose-rubbing) was a friend. My situation was a faceless auction. However I would like to think if I did acquire a coin from a dealer or CCF friend and discovered that it was worth something, I would not keep my mouth shut but come up with a situation that would satisfy us both. Any CCF'ers want to take me up on that?  Edited by CoinsKelly
04/22/2013 4:03 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
When I moved last, it was on short notice and needed to gather some traveling money. I took a portion of my collection down to my main coin shop. I considered some of the people there more than just aquaintances . They looked at the coins I brought in, the majority of which , I had bought from them. A few I had bought the week before. As LCS' are want to do, they offered me pennies on the dollar. $800 for a $2000 lot. Needless to say I passed. They said they felt bad, especially for offering me $40 for the coin I had bought from them for $100 only days before.
Now I know how shops work, buy low sell high that is how they stay in business. The point is, I would not feel bad for a second, if the shoe was on the other foot and I made money off of something they had ignorantly sold me for less than full value.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
I grew up in the last era of when self responsibility was important. And it was an infinitely better time.
If I were the dealer who Dave bought this from, and since I was happy with the price when I sold it, the item is now Dave's to do with as he wants/can. If Dave can make a profit off of something I sold him then all the more power to him. I had my chance with it. I made my decisions that led to missing an opportunity.
The larger the missed opportunity is, then the harder the situation is to accept. But I would have no right to whine since I had my chance and was happy when the initial sale was made. The school of hard knocks is a harsh and a great teacher.
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Valued Member
 United States
165 Posts |
Here's where it gets even worse. Its my understanding that in more than a few states dealers have sued in very similar circumstances and WON. They were compensated for their "loss"! Most cases involved an employee selling the owners product but even so.........thats CRAZY.
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Valued Member
United States
83 Posts |
Well the dealer sold it for what he was happy with. This might indicate he is just it in for selling and making a little profit and does not want to spend time "enjoying the thrill of the looking"
Chalk it up as one of those things about coin collecting that makes it interesting and exciting.
Those that observe often find!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2208 Posts |
Legally, Dave did nothing wrong. Ethically, he did.
That said, things get quite subjective. If he knew the dealer and was friends with him, I think he should have let the dealer know about the mistake. But if the dealer wasn't a very nice guy, then I think he would have justification to keep the coin.
Edited by jpsned
04/22/2013 5:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
Legally, Dave did nothing wrong. Ethically, he did. Dave did nothing wrong legally or ethically, He simply "Got lucky" on a coin purchase  if I bought a bulk lot of coins and later found a rare coin in the lot, I certainly would NOT feel obliged to the seller in anyway. I would however let them know that I found the coin and thank them for the purchase. Come on you guys, This is what we do as collectors. Most of us buy coins in the hope of getting a great deal or maybe something exceptional. What would happen if anyone of you found a rare coin in your change or from the bank  I very much doubt that you would go running back and give the coin back to them  This "dave" Bloke is blameless and more luck to him I recon   |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Agreed with trout. Dave owes no allegiance to the dealer, it isn't his job to do the dealers work for him.
The only way he would have done anything ethically wrong would be if he managed to slip that coin into the pile and the dealer didnt notice. Since it doesn't sound like thats the case and the dealer just gave him a pile with that in it he did everything that was expected of him.
Think of it a lot like a bartender. Theyre friendly with you at work because thats how they make money, if they see you out in town though it doesn't mean they feel any allegiance too you other than to be friendly
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Pillar of the Community
United States
511 Posts |
General bourse floor "etiquette" goes like this. Dealer to dealer can be law of the jungle, although it doesn't have to be that way. There are a lot of friendships and informal alliances among dealers. Dealers are supposed to be ethical with collectors. It doesn't always happen, but there are a lot of decent, honest guys in the business. What happens in a situation like the previous one? I had something similar happen once, although there wasn't nearly as much money at stake. I asked a dealer I knew fairly well for a price on a 1921-D Mercury dime in an ANACS VF-25 holder. He looked at the coin and quoted me Fine bid ($125 or so) instead of the VF price of $250. "You might want to check that price again," I said. This dealer had a great expression of relief when he saw the true value. I had done a fair volume of buying from him over several years and was always treated well and given competitive prices. It was payback time for one of the good guys in the business. |
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Valued Member
United States
64 Posts |
Respectfully, I'm still being quoted and misinterpreted. Being guilty and feeling guilty are two different things. I said "feeling guilty", which then presents an ethical problem of virtue which has NOTHING to do with any of us outside observers. We know he felt this (don't deny him his humanity) and we know know he struggled (let me capitalize that) STRUGGLED with what to do about his feeling of guilt. That struggle is the ethical problem for the buyer (not you or me because we don't feel the guilt). And I offered the solution for the buyer (not you or me) to solve the ethical problem that only he faces because it is a problem of virtue. Thanks for taking the time to understand what I just wrote and reviewing my solution to his ethical problem. I think it's a good solution but, maybe someone has a better one.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1704 Posts |
Quote:I asked a dealer I knew fairly well for a price on a 1921-D Mercury dime in an ANACS VF-25 holder. He looked at the coin and quoted me Fine bid ($125 or so) instead of the VF price of $250. "You might want to check that price again," I said. This dealer had a great expression of relief when he saw the true value. I had done a fair volume of buying from him over several years and was always treated well and given competitive prices. It was payback time for one of the good guys in the business. Not the same type of scenario here. What you did was the right thing to do because to have paid that dealer for a coin you knew was mistakenly under priced would have been unethical. Dave bought a group of silver dollars from a dealer who should have checked each and every one when he purchased them so he would know exactly what he was getting for his money. He didn't and he didn't bother to go through them later as it turned out or the '93-s would not have been in the bunch of dollars Dave bought. Every dealer I know with a B&M shop or not looks at each and every coin they buy for both the condition and date/mm so they don't over pay and to give the seller a fair price for their coins. One guy last year paid $900.00 for an XF-45 1909-S VDB a woman had in with fourteen other very common wheat back cents. He paid Three Cents each for the rest and they all went in his Wheat cent jar priced by the pound. She had no clue she had such a valuable coin. The dealer was very happy to have bought such a nice rare coin. He sold it for $1,100.00. Ed ANA LM-3175 |
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Valued Member
Canada
306 Posts |
Dave did nothing wrong. I would perhaps feel differently if he had mislead a person into believing it was only worth $7. Even then though, with google it literally takes 2 minutes to find out if a coin is common or rare and valuable. The dealer of all people should really have taken the time to make sure there was no key date Morgans in the pile.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
592 Posts |
I'm confused. I thought the OP was going to be an ethical question, but all I see is a perfectly unambiguous situation. Good on Dave.
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Posted 04/22/2013 1:06 pm
