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Investing In Coins Questions

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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list
Investing in coins is very much like investing in fine art. The majority of the hobby is conducted for love it is only at the very top end that Investment can really work for you.

If you are seriously looking at investment with solid returns you are going to have to look at purchasing coins with price tags starting at around US$20,000 (thats each!) and averaging close to US100,0000 each. If you want to invest in coins with a near a guaranteed a return you have to be very rich to begin with.
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United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
You need to separate Bullion from Coins.

One buys bullion by weight (x ounces of gold or silver or platinum or palladium). It sells (to you) for a small amount over the direct metal value (spot price) and is bought by dealers (from you) for a small amount UNDER the direct metal value. You sometimes see specials at $10/ounce over spot. So in order to make money, the price of the metal has to go up to cover the cost of buying + selling.

One buys coins for their numismatic value - rarity. There was an ebay BIN I just saw discussed here for a pewter 'coin'. 20 cents worth of pewter, on offer for a bit over $209K. But it is the finest known specimen and over 200 years old. That kind of rarity has held value. The lesser items - it's hit and miss.

At random, here is a 4 year chart of a lovely, very rare coin... http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/us...c=29001&g=65 and you can see that it hasn't changed in value in the 4 years...

Here is it's equally lovely, but less rare sibling: http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/us...c=17072&g=65, now this one is up for the 4 years, but it peaked in 2012... dropped and came back a bit.

Plus as others have said, you pay fees to buy and fees to sell.

So unless you really research the market and learn what you are doing, "investing" in coins is a great hobby, but not a great investment. But if you do do the research and have a little luck, you could make some serious coin (pun intended).


-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list
Buying coins as a investments, and to make a profit is very very hard.

Even if you have your own coin shop or tables at coin shows there is a really good chance you will not make a profit.

Some will sell on ebay or like sites. Between fees, shipping and problems with customers there is a good chance you will not make profit.

The biggest problem you will have is getting a steady stream of good coins at wholesale prices.

When you do find someone that will sell you coins, you need to have the knowledge, to know what your buying, and what price you should be paying.

The collectors that end up with high value collection, that are worth more than they paid. Are the collectors that learn as much as they can about coins.

They need to know when the coins are a good deal, then buy.

Then buy deals like that for years and years.
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United Kingdom
2887 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list
The only guarenteed way to end up with a small fortune in coins is to initially invest a large one.
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 Posted 09/16/2013  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
The only guarenteed way to end up with a small fortune in coins is to initially invest a large one.
Well put.
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United States
1348 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add w1a9c8k5 to your friends list
If you are looking to invest in coins I would suggest trying Barber halves or Mercury dimes. Those are the real potentials to get for close to spot with a chance of them increasing in price above spot. To be honest though if your looking for the $$$ aspect of it I would just invest in gold and silver bullion. It takes too much time to purchase and resell collectables. Coin shops will always want to make money on you and buy low to sell high. With bullion its pretty straight forward; You know how much your 1 troy ounce is worth within a 5% margin everytime. With a collectable it may be worth $50 to someone but $100 to another.
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United States
337 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Avshater22 to your friends list
If your going to invest in coins you should probably stick to bullion coins. Depending on where you purchase them they can be had for close to melt value. If you shop online and can buy in bulk you can sometimes find deals on silver for around $2 sometimes less if you buy in bulk. At a coin shop expect a $5-10 dollar price over melt value wi maybe a little bit less if you buy everything they have but I've never been to a coin store that had hundreds of bullion coin on hand. Check out providentmetals.com, meritgold.com, APMEX.com they seem to be some of the more popular sites for buying bullion. I collect silver bullion as well as silver coins. The coins are more for hobby while the bullion coins are for investment purposes and if the dollar ever crashes ill have something to barter with.
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Australia
1006 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oh my florin to your friends list
The key thing with coins is knowing what you are buying. The key things you want to have in a coin is that it is a rare date, very high grade (if not finest known), very strong strike, no problems, attractive toning, great eyeappeal and widespread knowledge of the coin by other collectors. These factors will differentiate it from other coins and it is these types of coins which appreciate rapidly. Although they will be expensive initially they will also appreciate faster anyway depending on the length of your investment which if it is longer you should invest in rare coins while if you want a short term investment you should look at gold and silver. Although the precious metal market is generally more volatile than the rare coin market.

Anyway with gold and silver they are low at the moment but I believe they will not have an immediately significant appreciation due primarily to improving economic conditions (when people are spooked with the economy they put their money into assets which will keep their value e.g. gold and silver higher demand equals a higher price while when the economy is going well they are more likely to invest it in shares or put it in their bank accounts leading to a lower demand for gold and silver, lower prices equal a lower price.
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 Posted 09/16/2013  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
Random investment is just like random gambling in Vegas. With the same results: I arrived in a $50,000 car and left on a $250,000 bus.

IMNSHO if the dollar ever crashes silver & gold will be useless - there is no intrinsic value except minor usage in electronics - I'm investing my EOTWAWKI fund in Cans of Beans.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Valued Member
United States
339 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Geohoarder to your friends list
I agree with w1a9c8k5

Someone gave me similar advice back in late 2009 regarding common dated uncirculated Morgan dollars. At the time silver was trading around 17-18 per oz. and I was able to pick up common dated uncirculated morgans for $20 a pop at the LCS. Now those common dated morgans in BU are selling for $40+ on ebay (100% gain) meanwhile silver is at $21.75 (25%) gain. I should ask that same person where he sees similar value now in coins.

Dropping $20k on a good condition key date coin just isn't practical for most people.
Edited by Geohoarder
09/16/2013 9:41 pm
Valued Member
United States
339 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Geohoarder to your friends list
On a similar note, bags of "junk" silver used to trade(pre 2008 crisis) around melt value and now they have a decent premium, so they have also outperformed silver bullion.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2013  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
Dropping $20k on a good condition key date coin just isn't practical for most people.


Its not which is kind of the problem with it. Those are the safest bets and the ones with the best chance to provide a good return. Everything else youre more speculating that it will work out in your favor than investing. Barbers or something else could explode tomorrow if everyone decided they wanted one, but its impossible to predict that. Some things will see great gains and fall back down as well when they arent the hot item anymore.

Just remember if it were that easy everyone would be doing it
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/16/2013  11:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list

Quote:
Dropping $20k on a good condition key date coin just isn't practical for most people.



Then you got the point! Like fine art: paintings that cost a few thousand dollars are always going to be considerably more risky and speculative( as opposed to investment) than a multimillion dollar painting. You can still loose out on the multimillion dollar painting but the the risk of such a loss is a lot less. IMHO investment grade coins are the same. Once you spend US$100,000 on coin you are investing and are much more likely to get a good investment return. Buying 100 $1000.00 coins looking for a profit is speculation.
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Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2013  03:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
To make a profit within ten years out of numismatic investment, you need to understand the numismarket and be a good opportunistic cherry picker. That takes experience and time.

If you are strictly interested in long term investment profit, there are more productive opportunities elsewhere.
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 Posted 09/17/2013  04:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list
I started my coin collecting thinking I was investing I soon realized I wasn't. For investment one is looking to ensure the value of your investment beats the rate of inflation. The main stream investments are bonds and stocks( Some might add in bank deposits) outside this central area of investment on the periphery are coins, stamps, antiques and so fourth. However the rules for these peripheral investments are very different to the more main stream. For nearly all the peripheral investments ( like coins) the general rules are:

1. Buy what appeals aesthetically to you ( even if later you have found the item has dropped in value you will have had the pleasure of owning it). I can not imagine anything worse than buying something you hate and then capping it off with a financial loss. If you hate it most other people will likely hate it no matter how rare it is. put some what off-color: Fossilized dinosaur droppings may be rare but who wants them sitting on their mantle piece?

2. Research what your buying. This may mean "buying the book" it can also extend to conducting your own in depth research visiting archives and mints.

2a. You should be "buying" the story behind the object more than the object its self. An attractive object with no story backing it is less likely to appreciate in value than one with a story.

3. Buy the highest quality you can reasonably afford. I have put this in third place for the simple reason that the second point sometimes trumps this one. If you know an item is rare and that it has a backing story with wide appeal it is better to buy it even in marginal condition. I really regret some of the purchases I didn't make because a coin was not up to standard......why because I have never seen another example come up for sale.


4. ( this may be contentious for some). A coin is only worth something at two points in time. Between those two points it has no value....the two points the point of purchase and the point of sale.




Now there are lots of stories floating around about collections. built up over many years, selling for Millions. this leads to too many people thinking coin collecting( antiques, stamps etc) is an easy path to riches. What they forget is:


  • often those collections are sold after the collector has died.

  • NO one actually looks to see if those wonder collections actually beat the no risk rate of return

  • more than likely those collections are the 1% the remaining 99% are sold for a loss

Edited by austrokiwi
09/17/2013 05:43 am
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