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Undated 2 Euro Struck With 2 Reverse Dies NGC AU-58

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New Member
Czech Republic
30 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2016  5:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sprag to your friends list
This is another piece of sculpture that was left to me from my grand father. I guess he was lucky. He even said to me once " the Pennache ". with those 777, will bring me luck one day" He meant by the 1977 in the observe and the one 7 on the reverse. sure enough he found this 4 Euro. No one believed him that it was genuine so I had it published to prove everyone otherwise. My Grandfather wanted to keep everything to himself and could careless of what people thought. I thought that I would clear things out for all of those pessimists.

http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v16n41a13.html



Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58
Edited by sprag
06/17/2016 5:29 pm
New Member
Czech Republic
30 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2016  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sprag to your friends list


Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58
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Canada
9866 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2016  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list

Quote:
No one believed him that it was genuine so I had it published to prove everyone otherwise.
http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v16n41a13.html

Proves absolutely nothing.
That is not having it published.
That is no different than having someone else post it for you on this forum.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
New Member
Czech Republic
30 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2016  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sprag to your friends list
I'm sorry but I do not understand your question ?
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Canada
10460 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2016  03:19 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
Too bad that Canadian cent is circulated... mint state it would be a nice coin at $600 or so... circulated, from the 1970s, it is worth about $200.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
10460 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2016  03:22 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
And, before you go off, spouting that it is a five-figure error and unique ("Lucky Leaf Hair Penny", "Pennache", etc...) - you should know that all errors are basically unique. Value for any given error is determined on the wow factor. A one cent struck on a Twoonie core is much harder to find, and much more valuable than a double flip struck coin.

I do know something about prices on Canadian flip strike coins... The ones below are all in my collection. The George VI examples are worth about $500 to $600 dollars, the 1962 is gorgeous mint state red, and possibly worth up to $1200, the 1970 example is worth about $750 (graded PCGS MS-64 RB).

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

I have not bothered to take photos of my double struck, flip strike 1-cent coins from 1974, 1977, 1978, 1979... it is simply a much more common error in the 1970s, than previous decades.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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New Member
Czech Republic
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 Posted 08/07/2016  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sprag to your friends list
Hello. Does anyone know anyone know of any auctions or private buyers that would be interested in this 4 Euro? Please send email.
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Czech Republic
30 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2016  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sprag to your friends list
WE have some new updates on the estimated value of this $4 EU King of Mint error. ":(?)000,000,00 USD+

Compliments of Allexpert.com
http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?...&qID=5088996


6 figures is a nice start.

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58

So people...
What are your thoughts on this one? What was your 1st thought when you read this post? please share.
Edited by sprag
09/29/2016 5:01 pm
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United States
24175 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2016  4:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list
Eh, might as well be Wikipedia. Hardly classifies as an update.
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United States
1380 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2016  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgfindring to your friends list
Your expert does make a point that it MIGHT be worth 6 figures if it could be proved to be an UNASSISTED error, which hasn't and probably can't be done.
Yes, I accept it is genuine. But genuine does not mean it wasn't surreptitiously made by a mint employee intentionally creating an error.
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Netherlands
74 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2016  05:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add qxy to your friends list
Even your expert says it's implausible it's an unintended error, and you completely ignore that rather essential piece of information. If you think it's worth so much, bring it to auction. You'll find out in no time what the actual value is. I'm afraid though you'll be disappointed.
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2016  05:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list
You need to realize that no matter how unique something may be, it really depends on what buyers want to pay.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
New Member
Czech Republic
30 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2016  06:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sprag to your friends list
"To be or not to be"encapsulated? And that was the question when this coin was in the hands of NGC. Understanding the fact that with the Mint machine it is equally possible for an 2 eur to be struck on both side just like any other coins because The planchet already has both metals in it. We can then conclude and agree that NGC has encapsulated this coin understanding the fact that it is not impossible for such coin to genuinely exist. If NGC found in any way that this Mint error was impossible than we can all agree that this coin would not have been in an (1) NGC slab, (2)nor would NGC bother grading it or (3) register this coin in their book. I would like to Quote NGC practice moto.
"What coins will not be graded by NGC"

NGC will not grade coins that are counterfeit, are of questionable authenticity or have been altered. In addition, NGC will not grade coins that have active surface contaminants such as PVC residue. These coins will often be eligible for NGC certification after conservation by Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS), an independent affiliate of NGC.

Hence, the decision was already made and NGC has agreed for this coin to be everything but "counterfeit" or of a questionable authenticity or altered. Just like the "two tailed set" which was certified as genuine and slabbed by ANACS"
http://minterrornews.com/issue2.pdf

So please to all of those with question marks wondering if this coin is to themselves genuine or not. Wonder all you want but the final decision was already made by qualified NGC experts and that for me is a closed case.

As to what it may be worth. Well all depends on the numbers of individuals interested in this coin if this coin were to be submitted to an auction. On the other hand it could be only 1 individual , a private collector who could snatch this one at the best price offer.

If there was a US dime with a nail sold for $42,000 of which around 6 of it's kind exist(URS-4) and a "Two Tailed" set of U.S. three Quarters (URS-3) of which 1 of those 3
Quarters sold for $80,000,than I really don't see how could this one of a kind 4EURO be worth less than 6 digits.
Like other coins, the value of errors is based, in part at least, on rarity and condition. In general, lower denomination errors are less expensive than higher denomination errors simply more such coins are minted resulting in available errors.
Also we look at the other stats such :
URS-0 None known
URS-1 1 known, unique
URS-2 2 known
URS-3 3 or 4 known
URS-4 5 to 8 known
URS-5 9 to 16 known
URS-6 17 to 32 known
URS-7 33 to 64 known
URS-8 65 to 125 known
URS-9 126 to 250 known
URS-10 251 to 500 known
URS-11 501 to 1,000 known
URS-12 1,001 to 2,000 known
URS-13 2,001 to 4,000 known
URS-14 4,001 to 8,000 known
URS-15 8,001 to 16,000 known
URS-16 16,001 to 32,000 known
URS-17 32,001 to 65,000 known
URS-18 65,001 to 125,000 known
URS-19 125,001 to 250,000 known
URS-20 250,001 to 500,000 known

So is this URS-1 worth 6 digits? , well let's be honest here. Hm,

(1) this is the only known of it's kind to be certified as "genuine" , graded by NGC.
(2) this is the highest denomination out of the set of euros. There are 6 types of denomination from the EURO set. 1 Cent/ 5 Cent / 20 Cent /50 Cent /1 Euro and 2 Euro

and yes " qxy "member , I could be disappointed if I were to send this coin to an auction and find out that only 1 bidder was interested in the coin. It's not the first time that a coin was sent to an auction with an estimated value of so much and sold for so little because of lack of interest or demands but correct me if I'm wrong , this mostly happens with common Mint errors.

My Two Cents worth.

Undated-2-Euro-Struck-With-2-Reverse-Dies-NGC-AU-58
Edited by sprag
10/02/2016 4:45 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2016  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
Chuck it on Heritage Fun auctions or a Spinks major Euro sale, only way to find true value there are many examples of I believe one euro version of this error and they don't sell for too much
New Member
Czech Republic
30 Posts
 Posted 10/02/2016  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sprag to your friends list
Hi there john100 and thank you for your input. However,I don't believe that there are many 1 euro double headed or tailed coins out there John. The last I heard was that there was 2 graded genuine and there are worth much more than the common 1 cent which fetched around $1600.00 USD back in the days. These 1 cents euro were shortly cut to half it's value after the quantities of them started to rise in the thousands. You can purchase the one 1 cent double headed or tail coins now these days for about $600.00 USD which is a nice count for a 1 cent. Good luck finding the 5 ,20 or 50 cent or 1 Euro but if you do then you could do the math as to what those may be worth.
John, I believe your were referring to the 1 Pound GBP and those are common just like many other GBP denomination and the GBP currency is also one of the most forged and counterfeit of it's kind but there are others to name a few : India , China. You could send all those GBP errors to NGC or any other respected grading co. and I bet you that 99.9% will never be slabbed. To me,A UK mint error is a red flag.
Like your input members and please if you can all; do add factual resources such as auction results info or recorded publishing material, all together with your remarks as it really makes a point then.
Edited by sprag
10/02/2016 09:38 am
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