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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2016  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list
When you're filling out the submission form, you just indicate on there the special label that you'd like. Often, they have special instructions such as submitting by a certain date or submitting still in the original mint packaging. Yes it costs extra, but I can't say how much since I've never done it.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  08:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list

Quote:
you're not really disagreeing that they are a way to separate suckers from their money


Correct...."suckers" might be a bit strong but the point is correct.

Obtaining special labels:

Different cost depending on the company.

NGC is the most reasonable with their Modern Special tier at $20 which includes grading AND any appropriate label (ER, FR, "Set" etc.)

PCGS charges $16 for grading moderns but a ridiculous $18 more to add the words "First Strike" to the label. I never could rationalize that.

Large submissions by dealers get significant bulk discounts with both companies.

Edited to add:

WHOA! I just went to the NGC site to get a list of special labels available and it seems they had a major price increase. Now it is just about the same as PCGS with the additional $15 for the label and $16 for grading...so $31 instead of $20....(vs. $34 for PCGS)

Anyway, here is a link to the special labels available from NGC:

https://www.NGCcoin.com/coin-gradin...-labels.aspx

Edited again :

NGC MS 69 special label graded bullion ASE's sell for less than $30 INCLUDING THE COIN....note to self: Don't grade bullion ASE's



Edited by Foxwoods Man
01/03/2016 08:40 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  10:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
What the what. NGC upped their special label cost? What's next? Stupid move on their part! If they keep trying to chase PCGS it just shows who's the true big dog and limits the differences between the two which can and should damper overall NGC submissions . Very stupid business move on their part imho
New Member
United States
23 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mispoken to your friends list
Is PCGS more "respected" in their grading practices than NGC? Seems like they're more "strict", so does that make, say, a PCGS MS70 trade at a premium to an NGC MS70?
Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list
Hmmm....have to tread lightly here because of a previous issue with the management of PCGS.....but let's just say that any grading company can create a perceived rarity by limiting the number of 70's they hand out (not referring to any particular company)

Ok...moving on....many non-modern coins with a PCGS grade have a history of selling for a premium to similarly graded NGC and definitely ANACS coins.

PCGS and NGC modern issues seem to be reasonably close to each other in price with a few price outliers.
Valued Member
United States
83 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2016  01:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ShinyCat to your friends list
For what it is worth, I have not picked up,any stabbed coins with special labels, because my track record at not being the last person to leave a fad is not great. Doing well with special alabs seems to require a really good eye on what is hot.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2016  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list
Here's a really good article about 3rd party grading of modern coins.
http://www.cmi-gold-silver.com/arti...ng-services/
Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2016  08:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list
Interesting opinion from a bullion dealer that is kinda miffed that gold bullion buyers seem to prefer graded coins over raw. I can understand that...


Quote:
True, a few slabbed modern coins have brought higher than market prices on ebay, but ebay is not the real world.


Higher than market prices? I would say the price paid IS the present market price. I believe he is equating "market" with "spot"

Ummm...eBay is about as close to "real word" today prices as there is...I have always believed that what someone is willing to pay for a coin is MUCH more appropriate to determine what it is presently worth...MUCH more accurate than a printed price somewhere.

No one is making ANYONE buy graded coins. It is a personal choice and a dealer in pure bullion is expected to be opposed.

Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2016  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list
I agree with the selling price being the market price. However, ebay is a little different because the selling fees are so high (about 13% for most sellers when the ebay fee and PayPal fee are included). I can buy most for less at coin shows because the dealers don't have to pay such high selling fees. So which would be considered market, ebay or the shows? Perhaps they're just slightly different markets.

I do agree with his general point. Take a regular current year silver eagle which sells for about $3 over spot. You can buy a roll and easily find several coins that are perfect. So, what are you really getting for the additional $20 that the 70's sell for. Just a nice holder in my opinion, that's all.
Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2016  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list
The CMI 'article' you quote has so many misleading assumptions that I don't consider it to be anything more than babble.

As far as ebay and Pay Pal fees, it's obvious that you've never set up at a show yourself. First you need to buy cases to display your wares, then you have to load them up and drive or fly them to the show, then you have to pay for the hotel room if the show is more than a day long. Slap on the table fee, the food, the chance of losing inventory at every turn if you don't remain vigilant, and then FINALLY trying to sell your wares.

Then it snows 32 inches.

Then you pack up all your goodies and drive or fly home. So you can unpack them when you get home.

13% is a steal.
Valued Member
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2016  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 01GTB to your friends list
My rules on special labels on moderns in the secondary market is this. Try to buy coins and not the label first. If I am buying graded, 9 times out of 10 I would buy a 70. I only buy the 69 if the series is having a hard time pulling off a higher grade, or that I can get the 69 for less than OGP. After I research the going price, I look to pay less than that. I don't like to be the person who paid on the high side. Then I look for the low pop labels. Sometimes you can get very desirable labels (to some) for just a little bit above the floor to the middle-range of that grade pricing.

Despite not really wanting to "buy the label", I've done it before I've bought coins that I was not really looking at because it had a real low pop label. But only if that coin with the low pop label came within the lower-average range pricing for that coin with no special label.

To me it seems the best time to get those special labels at good prices is about 6 months to 1 year after the coin has come out. Interest has gone to the newer mint products and no one is paying attention to these that were so hot last year. That's the time to scoop up the bargains on them.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2016  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list

Quote:
The CMI 'article' you quote has so many misleading assumptions that I don't consider it to be anything more than babble.

As a collector who's looking to maximize his collection with quality coins and not someone who's looking to flip coins, I find the article to be pretty spot on. The 3rd party grading services are grading modern coins not because they need to be authenticated and not because there is debate about the conditions of raw coins, but because the older coins have mostly been graded and the modern coins is how they can keep the revenue coming. At a recent show I went to I saw a table for MAC. They are a 4th party grading service that applies their stickers to the 3rd party slabs when they believe that a modern coin is nice for it's grade. They were selling coins too. I could literally walk to the next table and buy a modern raw coin for 1/10th the price or less.


Quote:
As far as ebay and Pay Pal fees, it's obvious that you've never set up at a show yourself. First you need to buy cases to display your wares, then you have to load them up and drive or fly them to the show, then you have to pay for the hotel room if the show is more than a day long. Slap on the table fee, the food, the chance of losing inventory at every turn if you don't remain vigilant, and then FINALLY trying to sell your wares.

Then it snows 32 inches.

Then you pack up all your goodies and drive or fly home. So you can unpack them when you get home.

I'm not a dealer. I'm a collector. None of what you have written explains why I can buy most coins for less at coin shows than off ebay. The fact that I can look at them in person and take possession immediately also makes the shows better.
Pillar of the Community
United States
7192 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2016  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddler to your friends list
Some of us do not have access to coin shows and rely on auctions to fill our quests.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2016  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list

Quote:
So, what are you really getting for the additional $20 that the 70's sell for. Just a nice holder in my opinion, that's all.


Totally agree with regards to bullion and it is evidenced by the MCM PCGS First Strike 70's selling for $38...

BUT and a BIG but (not big butt) this and the article refers to the grading of BULLION coins NOT collector coins. I really have no issue with his premise even with the few assumptions made. I see no reason to slab bullion and that is all he is talking about.

Full disclosure...I did buy a few of the 2016 PCGS 70 just because they were VERY reasonable...but I would NEVER submit any of my roll for grading.


Quote:
I agree with the selling price being the market price. However, ebay is a little different because the selling fees are so high (about 13% for most sellers when the ebay fee and PayPal fee are included).


Doesn't matter what the seller nets...the market price is what someone buys the coin for..show, dealer store, ebay, auction...market price is selling price. How much the seller makes from that sale is very variable.

No one sells a coin with zero expenses...maybe Craigslist but you need a couple of gorillas to accompany you to the pick up location
Edited by Foxwoods Man
01/07/2016 2:31 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2016  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list

Quote:
Some of us do not have access to coin shows and rely on auctions to fill our quests.

Absolutely. I didn't say or imply that there's anything wrong with buying on ebay. It's just that based on my experience I wouldn't consider ebay to be definitive for what market prices are. ebay is in general slightly inflated compared to show prices. Of course that's not always the case. Last year I was able to buy a roll of silver rounds and several ounces of gold from large reputable dealers at spot on ebay.
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