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Pillar of the Community
United States
2273 Posts |
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I'm 100% with cascade if the whole deal did go down as said....just makes no sense-either he's an idiot or he had no clue and did not care to take 30 seconds to research it...ive run into dealers that I was totally shocked at the stuff they had no knowledge of It's hard to believe but there are still some dealers out there that just don't care at all about moderns. I could tell horror stories about things I've seen in the dealer's till or coins that dealers told the owners to "just spend". Most of them will at least google their slabbed coins after they buy them. Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1373 Posts |
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Who cares if an MS70 is an MS70 is an MS70? Its ALL about the plastic right? In this example it just might be! I don't really see anything wrong with either the coin owner or the dealer. What truly makes a difference is the opinion of the seller that the number (70) on the plastic holder means more about the coin (and it's value) than the actual coin. True, if the dealer had known a bit more about the coin's estimated value he probably would have at least waged some offer price, but to him (and MANY others) the fact that the coin was rated as an MS70 meant no more to him if it was rated a MS69, MS68, MS67, etc. A '70' grade means a huge difference to some collectors and means nothing to others. Let's say that "Sam Snob" is working on making a complete MS70 set of Kennedy halves. Sam will pay extremely high prices to get what he wants. Also, he will scoff at someone who is trying to sell him an MS68 coin, saying "Sorry, that item isn't worth my time looking at", or "If I ever want any junk coins in the future, come and see me". Of course, Sam probably couldn't tell the difference between the MS70 coin he wants and the MS68 that was offered to him; only that the coin he rejected had a lower number on it than 70. Now "Bobby Bozo" is also trying to make a complete Kennedy set. He goes to some coin shows and sees lots of Kennedy halves being sold at lots of tables. They all look very nice and shiny, but he sees that the ones that are for sale in 2x2's seem to be cheaper than those in the plastic slabs. He ends up buying several from the 2x2 dealers and is very happy with his acquisitions. So who got the better deal; Sam or Bobby? Who likes their coins more? Neither! Both have bought what they wanted and are happy with their collection. Now, if either one of them wanted to sell their collection in the future, Sam would need to find another collector who was also looking for top-notch coins. Billy wouldn't get as much money as Sam, but he'd probably be able to sell his quicker. If the two guys ran into each other one day, Sam would tell Billy "Your coins aren't graded high enough!", and Billy will tell Sam "Your coins are way too pricey!". I guess all I meant to say is that "to each, their own". |
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Valued Member
United States
104 Posts |
Well said, atticguy.
Lesson of the day. stay away from HSN. :-)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3843 Posts |
Seems that the customer mentioned in the OP should seek out a specialty dealer that focuses on modern coins. I can see how a local coin dealer doesn't want to get involved since he would probably have to sell to a wholesaler cheap since he likely doesn't have a market for such the item in his shop. The niche of people that seek these modern rarities is very small and volatile. The dealer should have politely declined to make an offer.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
atticguy, sorry, but no. You are running your example on a personal preference basis, and the grading system is NOT a personal preference. The grading system is there to give coins a rating in order to be able to establish some value. If someone ignores that, and says a coin is no different if its a 64 or a 70, they are woefully ignorant of what those numbers mean.
Now, if you want to say its personal preference if a person wants to collect high or low grade, certainly it is. To each their own is not something that applies to actual value of the coin. It only applies to what the person is willing to spend. And when you are a dealer, if you are a dealer worth half a cent, you should know the grading system and the differences in grades and what those differences mean as far as value.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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They are. HSN's slabbed coins come from Dirty Dan's Garage and Coin Service (or similar) That would be ANACS, NGC and sometimes PCGS. Quote:
He had two choices - try and detain the seller until the police arrived (risking a false arrest/kidnapping charge if the seller thought he bought it legally). Or pay as little as possible (knowing it would be his loss) and return the stolen property. Actually they just plain bought them cheap. They didn't recognize them for what they were. When they went to NGC THEY didn't recognize them either. (1866 no motto quarter in proof. Unique and well known as having been stolen in the Dupont robbery. NGC just slabbed it as a regular 1866 proof quarter. Superior bought it over the counter for $100.) |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5246 Posts |
This thread may be getting a little stale, but I spoke to the owner of the my LCS, and he said that he would not pay so much for an MS70 graded bullion because he needed to protect himself-he might have to keep it on ebay for months and he had no confidence that it would sell at the high prices. Just as a matter of curiosity, I checked ebay today, and for the MS70 Eagles (big TPG only), there was one Buy it now for $2400, 2 "completed" listings at 2400 and 1900 respective, and a single "sold" listing of an ANACS graded MS70, sold for around $700. So it seems to me that the market for these high grade eagles may be quite thin and not stable, and it is far from guaranteed that anyone could get the $1000s they are "valued" at. Now granted that ebay is not the entire market, but it certainly seems to be an indicator. If I were a dealer, I think that I would not take a chance on paying high for such an item out of concern about a market crash. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3644 Posts |
Thats all good and good points you make but the dealer offered him bullion for it-
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5246 Posts |
Yes, the dealer would have been safe to offer more, but not $1500. Without knowing more, I can't say if the dealer was sufficiently honest. One dealer I know says "I am as honest as I can be". I guess that we can interpret this many ways, but dealers cannot exist if they kept advising customers of where they can get a better deal. It might have been better to have told the guy the whole story (that is, it might get $1500, might not). This all assumes that it was a big TPG slab. If not, all bets are off. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3644 Posts |
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
It is often presumed that if you own a shop that you should make an offer on anything that is presented to you. This is certainly true if you are the only shop in town. It should be ok to say "not for me". Offering bullion is maybe not the best way to handle this sort of thing, but if the LCS says "not for me", then the seller often has no other recourse at all. Most of the public has no idea how to find a show or sell a coin via the internet.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4593 Posts |
Sorry, I don't buy it - pun intended... if you can't resell it, don't buy it since it ties up your working capital and prevents you from buying things people want to buy.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
THe dealer is quite correct.
Inevitable dissapointment must come to those who think that modern MS70 bullion coins will have a significant value over the basic bullion value.
Almost all MS70 bullion coins have very little value over their bullion value. All of that (little) extra value is wasted on the return shipping fees and grading fees.
MS70 bullion coins will always remain common. By the vast number of them that have been made, that is what you should expect to happen.
This circumstance applies to almost every bullion coin issued by every country.
If you are buying bullion coins, always consider them in that that way, for their bullion value only, irrespective of their condition.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Sel, pre 2000 ASE's in top 3 ms70 slabs are quite rare and valuable. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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It is often presumed that if you own a shop that you should make an offer on anything that is presented to you. This is certainly true if you are the only shop in town. I feel they should, but the offer on things they don't need will be VERY low because they are going to want to blow it out FAST, and they will probably move it out to another dealer well below wholesale just to get rid of it. (And many people will feel insulted by the lowball offer.) |
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Posted 04/24/2016 9:06 pm
