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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,533 |
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New Member
 United Kingdom
36 Posts |
They were minted for a lot of years, but the date never changed. It's another reason I really like this coin :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
 , Mark240590! That certainly looks like a fake counterstamp on the 1773. And it appears to be recent, certainly more recent than the chops which would not be logical. At that time (circa 1797) silver went to China and goods came back. I seriously doubt that the Bank of England had an 8 reales that had circulated in China. The authenticity of the host coin is not certain either. What is its weight and can you post pictures of the edges. There should be two points, 180 degrees apart, where the circle and rectangle design overlaps. Edited by jgenn
05/28/2016 8:07 pm
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New Member
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
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New Member
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Here's a closeup through my loupe of the c/stamp. I haven't set up my my USB camera to the new laptop yet.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
Here's my PCGS certified example of the oval counterstamp on an 8 reales. The shape of the oval and tilt of the head are two obvious differences.  Edited by jgenn
05/31/2016 10:21 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
As for the host coin, I can't tell from the photos if the edge shows the expected overlap of the design in two sections 180 degrees opposite. Here is an example of what that might look like.  Edited by jgenn
05/31/2016 10:23 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The 1804 issues are both genuine Soho dies no problem there. The under type is very hard to see. I would not dare to guess.
Regarding the oval stamp of George III - that is unfortunately a Numismatic Forgery - just the stamp. It is fairly obvious given the wear on the stamp versus the coin itself. And of course the design of the King's portrait is simply wrong. It would be called an Altered original 8R by myself.
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New Member
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Thanks guys I'll send it back. What a pity !
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Pillar of the Community
Austria
566 Posts |
Agree the oval counterstamp is fake. I have seen a lot of these in the past 7 years, most of them coming from Spain or the UK.
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New Member
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Thanks for the heads up ! I've bought from you before.. I think it was a Brunswick wolfenbuttel 24 MarienGroschen :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Regarding the 1773 - I concur: numismatic fake stamp on a genuine 8R host. While not the same stamp, the general idea sort of reminds of this piece that appeared recently (with several other pieces that were also curious - 111992018660, 111992014846): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Great-Brita...111992004361That new 1804 BOE dollar is definitely is an upgrade in terms of visible undertype (not nearly a prominent on these as opposed to the Brazil 960 reis). Personally, the way I look at these... if the undertype is vague to the point where it takes a ton of study and some guessing to call it... does it really matter? Probably not in terms of value - though it can be a fun collector game to play. |
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New Member
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Indeed. I like the idea of finding the undertype. I would imagine a coin that showed the host coins mintmark maybe could carry a premium.
I will take some closer images of the undertype. I'm 90% it is Lima. The 1808 date is visible it's also a Carolus so by comparison with all of the types of that date only Peru had the tip of the Pillar pointing to the "I" of HISPAN.
Seriously, thanks for the replies guys. Maybe next time for the counter marked type.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quote:
...by comparison with all of the types of that date only Peru had the tip of the Pillar pointing to the "I" of HISPAN. Careful there... Spanish coinage dies of this era were made from individual style element punches, so there can be variation when looking at relative positions. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I agree with realswatcher - die element position is no guarantee of mint identification. A better clue would be use of one of the distinctive fonts for a numeral or a letter. The difference usually requires a fairly complete figure and familiarity with mint products. The 9 used at Mexico City is different from Lima or Potosi so that is a good one. At times the 6 is variant. There are others but not as definitive since the year would have to be known.
From what I have read - virgin planchets for both the 960 Reis and Bank of England issues are scarcer than the overstrikes unless you are referring to Heraldic US dollars, some of the issues from Europe and of course very rare originals from South America. There is NO premium at all for the big three mints Mo, Pts or Lima the last I new, unless the 4 digits of the date are clear, mint mark is clear and BOTH assayer initials are visible. Of course people who have not spent time studying the series may pay a premium because they no not know better.
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New Member
United Kingdom
36 Posts |
Thanks Bob.
I'll have to get the USB microscope out and do more digging the date 1808 is clearly legible under George's bust.
You're right that it's harder to find a coin with no undertype atall but some that show a lot are seemingly more interesting. I really like how this one messes with the new legend.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,533 |
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First Page
Posted 05/28/2016 8:03 pm
