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Machine Doubling Can Occur During The Strike

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Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 01/18/2017  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
For something as pronounced as your quarter, to me it makes sense there is an attached value. I think it would be great to find something like this.
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
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 Posted 01/18/2017  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ErrorCoins222 to your friends list
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I never thought of machine damage, as actual damage. I didn't even know others considered it to be damage and actually thought it was a misused term (just like PMD).
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 Posted 01/18/2017  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list
CoinMasters , I had not heard Die Deterioration Doubling being refered to as Machine Doubling before. Not too sure it should be. Though both types of doubling happen during the operation of the same machine, they are not that closely related .
Die Deterioration affects the die and produces coin after coin with the same characteristics. Machine Doubling is a one shot deal per coin.
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 Posted 01/18/2017  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
Hi ya Stoneman. Good to see you. We have always referred to wear on the die as Die Deterioration and/or MD. MD is Machine Doubling. There's been some use of the term MD lately as Machine Damage, but unless I'm incorrect here, I think that will cease.
ErrorCoins, damage is what can happen to a coin after the strike. I think Machine damage and Machine Doubling are too often used interchangeably, but either way I'm really not talking about Machine Damage here.
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 Posted 01/18/2017  11:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
The jest of my post is that while we've considered Strike Doubling to have occurred after the strike, it occurs during the strike. I personally have always felt that when the die releases the strike is over. Now with Mike's statement, I think that's acceptable.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
If you look at coins that are graded, they grade the MD as part of the strike. But you never see them consider as a doubled die. That is why I'm in the camp of the unwanted mint errors. I prefer the devices with the original design design or design that is considered as a variety. To think more of MD as what it is get people on ebay to consider it more valuable. I'm not in that camp. To me it is just a damaged coin. The devices are altered and not acceptable. But others may think differently. But you don't see any slabbed examples of machine damage marked on the badge of the slab as a good thing. I've seen high graded coins with MD, but to me I pass on them. They don't grade it as an issue. But I do. (that just me)
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 Posted 01/19/2017  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
Mr. Richard Cooper, you know you have my highest respect and gratitude. You sir are one of a handful of leading experts and have helped myself and many others understand the intricacies of our hobby, in my opinion, more than all the other experts put together.
There are as you say, two camps. Both are good camps, just two different schools of thought. One camp is the Purists, the everything is black and white traditionalists. To simplify, the Purists love the Gem BU Doubled Die, and tolerate the Prisoner Cent. The other camp loves the Gem BU Doubled Die and the Prisoner Cent. That's it plain and simple.
I understand your reservations about "To think more of MD as what it is get people on ebay to consider it more valuable" , because there are unscrupulous people on ebay. That is however not what the second camp is all about. The second camp genuinely appreciates some of the "unwanted mint errors". That's what gives them value, as affirmed by Mr. Mike Diamond himself.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tunnioc to your friends list

Quote:
the die bounces when striking the coin.

Excellent discussion!
I think this is some interesting Machine Doubling.
The date is the only thing doubled on the entire coin.
Does this happen during the strike, or after the strike, is a tough decision
Machine-Doubling-Can-Occur-During-The-Strike

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 Posted 01/19/2017  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
Tunnioc, start yourself a thread with that one. A lot of people only read posts once. Post it and you'll get more responses.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Check RK55's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add RK55 to your friends list
So apparently this Mercury dime is a "die bounce" after the initial strike? My "unwanted mint error".



Machine-Doubling-Can-Occur-During-The-Strike
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 Posted 01/19/2017  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list

Quote:
Machine Doubling Can Occur During The Strike


To me the strike includes the first point of contact to the point contact is removed or released. Any motion in between is still part of it.

Just my thoughts. Thanks, Doug.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
RK55 start yourself a thread with that one in the Classic coins section. Post it there and you'll get more responses.
Halo1st, exactly.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list
I wanted to follow up this topic of what I consider desirable and what is not to me. Take into account I currently don't buy or sale.

I'm in coops camp when it pertains to the minor MD's. Same with minor die cracks or Die Deterioration. Seems we see so many everyday. Though interesting examples abound, I can't think there is an actual collectors value for the more common examples and should not be exploited as valuable to the public.

Then there is the extreme examples of MD, also including large die cracks or severe DDD. We don't see everyday. I know I save them because they're unique, or like one of a kind. I believe these are collectable due to you're not finding another example anytime soon if ever.

So it boils down to supply and demand or its in the eye of the beholder. If someone is willing to pay (over face), then there is some value. I have no problem with that as long as the description is honest and or does not include any deceptions. Thanks, Doug.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
I would like to see more images of the 1972 that is MD. It might be a DDO as well? The shape of the '9' makes me think that.
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 Posted 01/19/2017  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list
Halo1st.
Edited by CoinMasters
01/19/2017 10:18 pm
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