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1965 1-Cent - Off-Metal Error Or Possible Pattern Piece?

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 Posted 02/16/2017  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list
Obverse pics please ?
What grade did PCGS give it ?
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
02/16/2017 5:24 pm
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1984 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2017  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Smallcentguy to your friends list
Very interesting. In 1965 copper and nickel were both broadly available. Copper was $0.40 a pound and nickel was $0.80 a pound. So there was no real reason for Canada to look at switching out copper for nickel.

There may have been some other reason for a test. Perhaps another country that used cupro-nickel was interested in having Canada mint their coins and this coin was struck as some kind of test.

Regardless, given the quality of the strike, I am inclined to think that this was some sort of official test rather than a back door job.

Or maybe it is just some kind of alloying error that slipped through the cracks.



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Canada
10463 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2017  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list

Quote:
Did the mint supply foreign coins to anyone in 1964 or 1966,


The Sherritt Mint supplied 100% nickel blanks to the RCM in 1964. Also, the Sherritt Mint supplied 100% nickel blanks (2.5 grams) to South Africa in 1964 for their new 1965 5-cent coin (KM#67), and some of those planchets were mixed up and sent to the RCM. That is where this one came from (Zonad has one of these as well):

http://www.PCGS.com/cert/33950447

But, this one is Cu-Ni.


Quote:
Obverse pics please ?
What grade did PCGS give it ?


http://www.PCGS.com/cert/33950463
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 02/16/2017  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list
Thanks for that link.
Unlike our southern neighbors have demonstrated I like to be sufficiently informed before I cast my vote.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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Canada
1160 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2017  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chadcoins to your friends list
The nickle story from the Sherritt Mint.Your blank might have looked like this. Great errors you guys have!!

1965-1-Cent---Off-Metal-Error-Or-Possible-Pattern-Piece?
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 Posted 02/16/2017  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list
I chose mint sport.

Though, I'd like to believe pattern because that was the first year for that bust.

To begin a process of elimination, does anyone know if the blunt 5 small beads was the first die pairing for the 4 varieties for 1965. I think the pointed 5 is later because it's actually deterioration? I believe a pattern would be the earliest die pairing and show no signs of die usage, it looks pretty crisp.

any clashes, or Die Deterioration visible? If so, I think we could agree it would rule out pattern.

It would lend to it being a pattern if you could find that same metal compisiton used on any other patterns that the mint struck? Or a historic record of the mint considering a different metal for use in 1965, though that may have been more costly, seeing the composition, so may not make sense.

What makes me think it's not a pattern is that weren't most patterns specimen strikes?

To confirm it's a pattern may prove difficult?
Edited by Alan
02/17/2017 12:28 am
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 Posted 02/17/2017  08:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
Since it's resided with the mint master for a long time, I would say trial piece. As for mint sport one would expect much cooler examples like wrong metal, or penny on quarter, etc.
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 Posted 02/17/2017  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ace_ftw to your friends list
Well I don't know how it could be mint sport or off metal foreign strike. there were no Cu-Ni planchets the size of our penny being used. the closest would have been the USA nickel, but that would be well oversized.

it would have to be a test of some sort either a pattern or trial piece. the question is if it sat with the mint master is there no way one could track this down? There must be some kind of documentation for this coins existence.
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 Posted 02/17/2017  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list

Quote:
... from the time it left Mint Master Parkers office in 1965 ...

How do you know it was in the Mint Master's office?
Is there some documentation?
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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 Posted 02/18/2017  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list

Quote:
identical size planchet, specific gravity of 75/25 Cu-Ni is almost the same as bronze


is it possible this is just a bad alloy mix?

Edited by Wade
02/18/2017 12:01 am
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 Posted 02/18/2017  12:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list
Cu-Ni test tokens of other denominations were struck in 1965 for use as samples for potential customers.
The possibility of a one cent example in that alloy isn't such a stretch for 1965.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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2428 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2017  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darryldarryl to your friends list

Quote:
I am inclined to think that this was some sort of official test rather than a back door job.


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United States
461 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2017  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zimmy to your friends list
Per Mike Diamond's quote, "when a planchet can't be linked to a known domestic or foreign issue it is considered an "orphan" ". There are many ways a planchet can be an orphan including being struck on a token, a wrong stock foreign coin, etc. I have a few US coins that are struck on planchets of unknown origin.
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 Posted 02/20/2017  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list

Quote:
How do you know it was in the Mint Master's office?
Is there some documentation?


Other than a few comments made by a few coin dealers, which cannot be proven to be valid or false, there is no documentation - hence why I am showing it here.

I have a few more people to ask, including some friends at the Bank of Canada Currency Museum... but I doubt I will ever find answers...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 02/20/2017  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list

Quote:
Cu-Ni test tokens of other denominations were struck in 1965 for use as samples for potential customers.
The possibility of a one cent example in that alloy isn't such a stretch for 1965.


I would like to think so... but you think there would have been some documentation of that...

It could be a trial to test the new dies with the newer version of the effigy as well...?
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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