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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I feel quite confident that I can grade coins accurately enough for my own needs, sufficient enough to avoid having to buy slabbed coins.
I am very often tempted to give an on screen grading opinion for the benefit of others.
Nevertheless, a third party grader has a very distinct advantage that I don't. They get to examine the 'raw' coin in hand, with a 10x loupe.
I don't.
Therefore, my grading opinion is just that.
Another opinion.
And occasionally, I am proven wrong.
Also, same applies to Third Party Graders.
Nevertheless, I will occasionally disagree quite strongly with the slab grade, and I will say so, giving my reasons.
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We all need to grade accurately for our own needs. That is why grading threads are so essential here in the CCF.
Edited by sel_69l
06/05/2018 08:16 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
jdmern, their photos are mostly top notch and they have have a great photographer. Only problem is they have lousy quality control over the photos they release. Yes a coin can be difficult to photograph so even their photographer will have a good number of images that are sub par. That is where their quality control sucks as somebody should check that each coin has a choice problem free image for both sides before the coin is slabbed. An assistant, a junior, an intern, whatever; but somebody must eyeball those images.
Then somebody must eyeball each slab to ensure the content matches the label. Ideally that somebody must be experienced enough to quickly spot if the grading should be queried because I know from experience that I can have a dozen coins in the same grade for the same denomination and year yet be pleased with some but disappointed with others; so much so that some slabbed coins look inferior in every way (lustre, strike, bagging, eye appeal) to others that graded a full point below. That matters when that point is over a thousand dollars in difference.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Only problem is they have lousy quality control over the photos they release. No they don't, you just wish they did to keep trying to bash them As I've said before I seriously doubt your error finding rate is the 100 percent you think it is. The fact that you can't understand that a small of percentage of anything any company does will have a mistake or a quality issue says all I need to know about your motives. Even the space shuttles had issues and nothing on earth has ever had more brain power or resources used in quality control. Nothing humans do will ever be perfect and you finding a handful of pictures doen't mean their pictures are bad or that they have bad quality control on the pictures. I already told you how to get the pictures fixed and how easy it was and you went on a rant about how you shouldn't have to just taking a completely unreasonable position. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Where did your 100% error finding rate come from? Not a figure I ever quoted. I did say 10% have problems (either with the image, the label or the grade) and that is not an exaggeration as I can list dozens of slabs I own that have those issues or list hundreds that I have seen. I spot their screw ups nearly every day. Don't believe? Check out slab 84042295 in ebay item 372316918851 with a BIN of 174.99, spotted that one 8 hours ago. They stuffed up the description as it is a DOT BELOW and worth perhaps $5. I know it is a dot below because it is CBL and all CBLs are dot below, something their "expert graders" obviously have not bothered to learn. So some sucker will buy the slab and not the coin and be down $170. I can post multiple examples of sold coins where PCGS got the description wrong and the buyer will be down hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. Please don't insult us by claiming PCGS guarantee will fix those losses as I know of many cases where the victims have waited over a year for a resolution as the buck is passed around for responsibility. Clearly (some) Americans have low expectations for quality control and think that the customer should have to waste their time contacting PCGS to fix their screw ups. When customers buy a premium expensive (huge mark up to cost at that) product do you really think that it is a completely unreasonable position for them to expect things to be done right the first time? Clearly some posters are shills for PCGS and defend them against any evidence that they regularly make mistakes. Those mistakes cost customers a lot of money as shipping coins internationally is expensive and take time (often over a month for the return trip) with the risk the coin may go missing in transit (once had a gold coin of the highest rarity being unique take about 4 months to be located and delivered from your crappy postal system to Australia). Edited by nealeffendi
06/06/2018 4:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
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Where did your 100% error finding rate come from? Not a figure I ever quoted. I did say 10% have problems (either with the image, the label or the grade) and that is not an exaggeration as I can list dozens of slabs I own that have those issues or list hundreds that I have seen. I spot their screw ups nearly every day. 10% of PCGS slabs have problems? That is more than a bit of hyperbole?! Where on earth are you getting that percentage from? You do need to keep in mind that American grading is simply different than world grading. An American XF is an entirely different grade than a British EF. And on top of that, at the end of the day, a grade is an opinion. You could put 100 coins in front of any 2 experts in just about any series, and I can almost guarantee that there will be a difference of opinion in at least 10 of them. Quote:
Clearly (some) Americans have low expectations for quality control I have been frustrated with PCGS's customer service myself in the past, but the idea that everything will be perfect all of the time is just outrageous. Quote:
Clearly some posters are shills for PCGS and defend them against any evidence that they regularly make mistakes Just because someone disagrees with your opinion, does not mean they are a 'shill' for a company. Quote:
Those mistakes cost customers a lot of money as shipping coins internationally is expensive and take time (often over a month for the return trip) with the risk the coin may go missing in transit (once had a gold coin of the highest rarity being unique take about 4 months to be located and delivered from your crappy postal system to Australia). I ship all over the world, and purchase from all over the world as well. The U.S.'s postal system is not what I would even remotely call 'crappy' |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Where did your 100% error finding rate come from? Not a figure I ever quoted. I did say 10% have problems (either with the image, the label or the grade) and that is not an exaggeration as I can list dozens of slabs I own that have those issues or list hundreds that I have seen. I spot their screw ups nearly every day. Sure you do. The 100 percent I was quoting is that you seem to believe you are right 100 percent of the time, given your disdain for them I would bet that some of the "errors" you think you found aren't actually errors at all. Saying 10 percent of their coins are mistakes is just flat out wrong as well. Quote:
Clearly (some) Americans have low expectations for quality control and think that the customer should have to waste their time contacting PCGS to fix their screw ups. So you have never made a mistake ever in your life? Your companies you work for have never made a mistake? There isn't a single company anywhere on the planet that has never made a mistake so you can knock that nonsense off. Quote:
Those mistakes cost customers a lot of money as shipping coins internationally is expensive and take time (often over a month for the return trip) with the risk the coin may go missing in transit (once had a gold coin of the highest rarity being unique take about 4 months to be located and delivered from your crappy postal system to Australia). The American postal system is one of the best in the world, actually superior to the Australian one as well but sure keep calling everything crappy and looking very misinformed |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
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So you have never made a mistake ever in your life? No where did he say he never makes mistakes, You're putting words in his mouth in an I'll attempt to refute him. What I got from what he said was that he (1 person) has been able to buy numerous coins at discounts because of PCGSs' (multiple experts) mistakes. I am not trying to say that the graders at PCGS are not experts, but when 1 person can notice a mistake made multiple times by experts, mistakes that no one at PCGS seemed to notice, then people are going to question PCGSs' expertise. But I guess those people just have "an axe to grind" huh. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts |
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What is the antonym of Troll? Fanboy Various internet definition sites - main quote from Urban Dictionary. "An extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc. Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions. Known for using the phrase "Object of affection = Best Ever" However, while people only really say that as hyperbole, fanboys truly believe it... Insult/chastise others for using public forums to express an objective opinion, no matter how constructive or, respectful it may be. (Go ahead and admit that it's a good game/movie/etc. This fact and anything else will be promptly ignored in favor of cherry picking the negative, and beating you over the head with it. Tend to resort to petty annoyance replies when backed against the wall. Usually grammar attacks and non-replies." They also say a fanboy will, "troll online to spread the gospel." So a fanboy can be a troll I guess. Ignoring and/or failing to supply sources/requests for such, assigning motives to shift focus etc. are also common. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
So me, jdmern, and basebal21 are trolls now because we like PCGS's services?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Yes, Optimist-numismatist and Earle42 are on the money in identifying the fanboys. Certain posters cannot refute the examples I've posted so they attack by putting words in my mouth. I can prove that 10% figure if the PCGS fanboys and shills really want me to. Would they like a post every day labled PCGS screw-ups? I'd be happy to oblige. How about I list a few in my collection for starters. 30509523, a lovely error penny (double struck flipover), pity about the black contraption taking up half an image. 31576797, a scarce variety penny (pointed serif) that is wrongly in the population report as the standard variety. 18348028, a 1951PL (London) threepence wrongly identified as M (Melbourne) 80782617, a real doozy. An Aussie shilling that was originally slabbed as NZ, has a massive flaw on one side that should have precluded slabbing as a normal shilling (but a lovely error). 13507333 a Canberra florin graded MS63 prooflike (it even states prooflike on the slab). The previous owner sent it back to get the MS63 designation corrected to PL63 but PCGS wouldn't amend the designator. 27330407 and 18760816 both MS63 Large Denticle 1953 florins that PCGS has in their population report as Small Denticle. 84966152 a MS64 Large Denticle wrongly identified as Small Denticle. And then I could list dozens of undergraded or overgraded examples. Yes, the grades are opinions but they are supposed to be expert opinions and it is supposed to be 2 experts agreeing. So how can 2 experts with their eyeballs on the coins agree on a grade and then agree on a different grade when the coin is resubmitted for an upgrade? This is so common that they even advertise their Reconsideration Service (which really means we messed up last time so you can pay us more money to fix those screw ups. Maybe tomorrow I could start posting a few counterfeit coins in genuine PCGS slabs. I've only spotted about 20 this year. Then there are a few hundred misidentified coins I could list, like a circulation strike in a proof slab or a proof in a circulation slab. Wrong countries, wrong mints, wrong denomination, shall we continue?   Edited by nealeffendi
06/07/2018 05:41 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1949 Posts |
 It's supposed to be a fun hobby. Not sure of why there is so much vitriol on these threads lately. I can just say that one of the reasons I post on this forum, rather than others, is it was a place where people could discuss and disagree freely, especially on matters of opinion... But I guess I'm just a 'fanboy' who knows nothing about this industry... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3244 Posts |
I think it's time to shut this thread down. It is going nowhere and the name calling is juvenile.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8715 Posts |
 Yes. I don't know why there is so much heat in the recent threads about TPGs. It's time to lock this thread. |
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Moderator
 United States
189767 Posts |
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Posted 06/06/2018 04:38 am
