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 Replies: 57 / Views: 7,375 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
Quote:
.the idea that people don't need to know the relevant facts to make an argument is just absolutely wrong. Baseball... That's not what he said, what he said was that he didn't need to see either groups of Morgans to know that that subjectivity can be a factor when giving an opinion on a coin and or coins I find from what I have read from You on this site you seem to see everything coin related as either right or wrong (just from what I've read, not saying factually). I hope you realise that someone's personal opinion on which collection is better, or what two groups of coins can be compared is different than stating a fact. For example, say there was a really nicely rainbow toned coin at auction and it went for 3x book value. If I say that I personally find the coin ugly, it doesn't mean I am right or wrong. Yes the market would probably strongly disagree with me, but even if 99 out of every 100 collectors liked the look of the coin, it doesn't mean those that prefer other examples are wrong. Just because the market liked one group of Morgans better doesn't mean those who preferred the other group are wrong. I'm not trying to belittle you either, I am just giving my view of things. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Baseball... That's not what he said, what he said was that he didn't need to see either groups of Morgans to know that that subjectivity can be a factor when giving an opinion on a coin and or coins That's exactly what he had said. Commenting on anything without seeing or in other words knowing the facts is naive at best. Quote:
I find from what I have read from You on this site you seem to see everything coin related as either right or wrong I really don't, certain things have correct answers like market conditions or Simpson vs a random bank hoard, but I am on of the first people to jump on someone if they're criticizing what someone likes for no reason if I see it. It's just lately a couple of you have wanted to argue with me over constantly like this thread. Quote:
Just because the market liked one group of Morgans better doesn't mean those who preferred the other group are wrong. Simpson vs Battlecreek is not this situation at all. Not even close. Having 8k+ common grade common dates at best to describe a lot of it nicely doesn't compare to top collections. This is like what's better a Pinto or a Lamborghini. You make like a thing or two better on the Pinto but overall there is no comparison. They aren't in the same class at all. There's many articles and resources on both. Not being aware one was a hoard of bags is why I am saying people shouldn't argue without knowing the facts first. I even actually said "A coin here or there sure, but as a whole they aren't even close to the same level of quality." but both of you continued to argue for the sake of arguing But tell me why a hoard of mostly common date common grades should be superior since you are defending the position Edited by basebal21
07/23/2018 01:36 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
Quote:
.That's exactly what he had said. Commenting on anything without seeing or in other words knowing the facts is naive at best.
Except he wasn't giving His opinion on either groups, he was just saying that there is subjectivity which is preferred from person to person. Quote:
I even actually said "A coin here or there sure, but as a whole they aren't even close to the same level of quality." but both of you continued to argue for the sake of arguing See, I'm not arguing which one is better, what I am saying is that just because someone prefers the hoard over the collection doesn't make them wrong. Quote:
.But tell me why a hoard of mostly common date common grades should be superior since you are defending the position Now you're putting words in my mouth, please refer to above point. I am not saying the hoard is better (From the research I have done I would say that I prefer the Simpson collection all day every day). But what I am saying is that someone shouldn't be labeled "wrong" because they prefer the hoard over the collection. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
@basebal21 Please reread the comments. You are arguing that one collection is obviously better than the other, despite no one saying anything to the contrary. This is not about the specific collections or coins, it is about hyper-generalizing the collecting market based upon one's own opinion. I never said that I preferred one collection over the other, so you are arguing with yourself on that one. (arguing for the sake of arguing?) This is about "no subjectivity." Please justify how that can be true. I am aware of nice collections (including Sunnywood and Battle Creek). Who compiled them? Would you have chosen the exact same coins? Do you deny that each and every collector has their own interpretation of beauty and value (which would be a personal subjective interpretation)? @Optimist-numismatist seems to understand the primary point I was expressing. It is semi-hypothetical, so maybe that's an issue.  In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
07/23/2018 02:54 am
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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From the research I have done I would say that I prefer the Simpson collection all day every day Glad you took issue with me saying that then..... Quote:
I am aware of nice collections (including Sunnywood and Battle Creek). Apparently you aren't to be honest. 10 bags of Morgans tucked away isn't a collection, its a stacker hoard at best. One is an elite collection the other is a hoard so.... You guys have fun with your games watching arguments twist and turn from being unaware of the original subject facts is boring to me, I'm going back to ignoring you two unless there is an egregious correction that needs to be made. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
683 Posts |
Quote:
.Glad you took issue with me saying that then.....
What do you mean? Quote:
. You guys have fun with your games watching arguments twist and turn from being unaware of the original subject facts is boring to me, I'm going back to ignoring you two unless there is an egregious correction that needs to be made. Belittling people doesn't make you right, neither does ignoring people. But hey, I guess anyone who disagrees with you is just arguing for the sake of arguing. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1193 Posts |
Based on my limited knowledge of Morgans, it seems there have been many hoards uncovered over the years. Has there ever been any significant hoards of Peace dollars found? I am talking about less common dates, not the 1922-1925's. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: Has there ever been any significant hoards of Peace dollars found? I am talking about less common dates, not the 1922-1925's. The Redfield hoard had some 25 S, 27 S and 28 S Peace dollars in it. There was also a hoard of 27 D Peace dollars in the early 90s. There may be more I am forgetting but Morgans are definitely more common for hoards |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1193 Posts |
Thanks basebal21, I forgot about the Redfield hoard. I hadn't heard of the 1927-D hoard but found a little blurb on it.. "The 1927-D silver dollars are the 2nd rarest Denver Mint Peace dollars in Uncirculated condition, so Littleton's buyers leapt into action when they learned that 2½ mint bags (2,500) of 1927-D Peace dollars would be auctioned off through Sotheby's of New York. A husband had given the silver dollars to his wife in 1927 for a 25th wedding anniversary gift. The coins had been locked in a bank vault for 65 years before the family decided to sell them through the famous auction house. Despite fierce bidding for these very scarce dollars, Littleton acquired over 2,000 of them, and customers quickly snatched them up." I often wonder if a 1934-S hoard will show up someday and make that date/mm more affordable! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
I just saw and read this thread. Quote:
Belittling people doesn't make you right, However, belittling, by definition is an ad hominem attack and proves the person making the attack is wrong in what they are arguing and knows it either consciously or subconsciously. In debate an ad hominem statement is always seen as proof the side using it is not able to give factual counterpoints to the facts they are presented with and their presented side of the issue has been factually lost. People who don't consciously think about the definition (if they know it) succumb to the normal, purely emotional "gut reaction" to strike back at the other side for having made them face irrefutable facts. People like lawyers and politician who DO understand what ad hominem means use the attack as a tool to play their opponents. Since most people are not aware of the term "ad hominem," the lawyer/politician will deliberately use the attack when they know they have been beaten. The focus of the attack therefore shifts off of the actual subject being debated. Most of the time an immature "name calling" session results. Thus the lawyer/politician will not have to ever admit being legitimately defeated and also gets revenge on their opponent by "pushing their buttons" to make them angry. Any victory by the other party seems hollow to the victors. The key is education. If someone uses an ad hominem attack on you, point out they are using ad hominem and what it means. If they continue, then see the immaturity at work for what it is. This is all part of a GOOD Ed. Psych classes. High schoolers are the typical ad hominem machines in this world. Teachers who see the reality of the term and situation can train their students what it is and defuse a lot of problems and ill feelings before it happens. Forums benefit when people understand the terms b/c then legitimate debate can take place and we all learn and are better for it. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:Thanks basebal21, I forgot about the Redfield hoard. I hadn't heard of the 1927-D hoard but found a little blurb on it.. "The 1927-D silver dollars are the 2nd rarest Denver Mint Peace dollars in Uncirculated condition, so Littleton's buyers leapt into action when they learned that 2½ mint bags (2,500) of 1927-D Peace dollars would be auctioned off through Sotheby's of New York. A husband had given the silver dollars to his wife in 1927 for a 25th wedding anniversary gift. The coins had been locked in a bank vault for 65 years before the family decided to sell them through the famous auction house. Despite fierce bidding for these very scarce dollars, Littleton acquired over 2,000 of them, and customers quickly snatched them up." I often wonder if a 1934-S hoard will show up someday and make that date/mm more affordable! There really doesn't seem to be a whole lot about the 27-D hoard, I'm guessing because it was small by hoard standards. There very well could be a bag or some bags of the other dates laying around, the 34-S wouldn't be the first silver dollar to take a hit with new bags coming out. When or if it ever does who knows, but I fully expect more hoards to come out in the future which will probably be continued to be dominated by Morgans. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2843 Posts |
Does the Binion hoard count? I have seen Peace dollars from that collection. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:Does the Binion hoard count? I have seen Peace dollars from that collection. I guess you could count that too. I can't remember exactly what was in it but weren't those mostly lower MS common dates? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Quote:
. I can't remember exactly what was in it but weren't those mostly lower MS common dates? There were over 100,000 Morgan and Peace dollars in that hoard. The bags were moved with industrial equipment, it's amazing any high grade examples survived. Speaking of hoards, anybody else remember the Continental Illinois Bank hoard from the eighties? That contained about 1500 bags of Morgans.....a million and a half coins. 500 bags were AU (1879 to 1882 mostly O-mint), and 1000 bags of BU ('78-'88, with the majority being S-mint). There were some really nice pieces in that hoard. At a Long Beach show back around 2000, Brian Sonnier recognised a piece from my small collection as one he had originally purchased from the Continental hoard.....made my day! When I had to disperse my collection, that coin was the last (and toughest) one to go.  Edited by hadleydog
07/25/2018 03:36 am
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Replies: 57 / Views: 7,375 |
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Posted 07/23/2018 01:31 am
