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Federal Res. Inventories Of $1 Coins At 1.155 Billion As Of 2nd Qtr 2018

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  09:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
Your dollar coins will never be popular until you drop your dollar bill, most counties like here in Canada and it has worked well, but as the US has shown it will never work with both
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United States
189767 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Easy fix, eliminate the $1 paper bill.
Exactly.

Quote:
Why can't our government figure this out?
They can, but lobbyists convince them to ignore the facts.

Quote:
Eliminate the penny while they're at it.
This too.

Quote:
I don't see who in the government benefits by continuing production.
Crane & Company benefits from having more paper money.

Jarden benefits from the Zincoln. Not only do they provide the zinc, but they manufacture the ready to use blanks. All the mint does is strike them.

These two companies pay lawmakers to keep it going.

Quote:
Also this new American Innovation $1 coins is just ridiculous. I feel like our age old hobby is being hijacked by gimmicks.
I like the idea for a circulating dollar coin. I just wish the act also eliminated the dollar bill.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
They can, but lobbyists convince them to ignore the facts.


It's honestly much simpler than that, there just isn't big money get thrown at anyone from the lobbyists on either side. The honest truth is just that people prefer a dollar bill, it's lighter and more convenient. Coin collectors are pretty much the only ones who have strong feelings about dollar coins vs bills and even a large chunk of coin collectors prefer bills for circulation.

Lets not forget that coins are much easier to counterfeit for circulation than bills are, just look at what happened with the 1 Pound coin. They've even already cracked the new design unless you're a collector you won't notice and now after all the effect are right back where they started with fakes flooding commerce
Valued Member
United States
119 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ACWhammy to your friends list

Quote:
Crane & Company benefits from having more paper money.

Jarden benefits from the Zincoln. Not only do they provide the zinc, but they manufacture the ready to use blanks. All the mint does is strike them.

These two companies pay lawmakers to keep it going.


So in a roundabout way, they're basically being subsidized?!
Pillar of the Community
United States
7636 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list

Quote:
So in a roundabout way, they're basically being subsidized?!


That's the bottom line!
Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list
Politicians in the pockets of lobbyists does not explain this. That problem also exists in other countries who have successfully modernized their currency. Americans' stubborn failure to modernize in all sorts of ways (e.g. the metric system) has to come down to some other uniquely American factor.
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United States
189767 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
I do not think what the people want matters here. It seldom does with anything else since issues like this tend to have pluralities and no clear majority for or against. The truth is that most of the folks do not have a dog in the fight. If there were a majority it would be "meh" and adapt to the change or continue to use their electronic payments like nothing happened.

The truth is that killing the cent and replacing dollar notes with coins will save the treasury money. Of course the savings will not be passed to the people, but diverted to some other endeavour by the same legislation that initiated the change. That being said, the only way congress will throw away free money is if they are getting more money (more can be quantify or flexibility of its use) from someone or something else to maintain the status quo (you can also factor in the political or societal "costs of change" in that calculation).
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
I do not think what the people want matters here. It seldom does with anything else since issues like this tend to have pluralities and no clear majority for or against. The truth is that most of the folks do not have a dog in the fight. If there were a majority it would be "meh" and adapt to the change or continue to use their electronic payments like nothing happened.


I do agree most people would say Meh when asked about unless it gets implemented. However Meh is still a form of opinion and with the test runs to implement it it was clear. The status quo generally remains unless there is a big push to change it which there clearly isn't and probably won't be.


Quote:
The truth is that killing the cent and replacing dollar notes with coins will save the treasury money.


I disagree when it comes to dollar coins, I firmly believe most of those "savings" are on paper only. The transportation costs are much higher, they're easier to fake and will need to be pulled entirely and reissued every couple years or decade which is a very significant cost, more room to store them ect. It's very easy to have a savings that isn't really one by not considering all associated costs
Pillar of the Community
United States
7516 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list

Quote:
It is good that they are being put to some good use.


What good use? Make more coins to store, build new storage facilities to store the unwanted/unused new inventory! storage is not free, it is an additional cost! what are these people thinking at the Mint!!

I'll answer myself : They are not thinking
Edited by Chase007
11/01/2018 3:22 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
4692 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list
Like many government ventures, it's just a jobs program. Spending other people's money.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36878 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list

Quote:
Easy fix, eliminate the $1 paper bill

That should have been done when they started issuing the Presidential dollars.
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United States
189767 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
I firmly believe most of those "savings" are on paper only.
I disagree. Transportation may be higher "per dollar" shipped, but each dollar of coin is shipped at fed expense less frequently than each dollar of notes over a 30 to 50 year period.


Quote:
they're easier to fake
Disagree. At best they are on par, but reality says paper is easier (and cheaper) to counterfeit. Reality also says paper notes are more profitable and easier to move for the forgers.


Quote:
and will need to be pulled entirely and reissued every couple years or decade which is a very significant cost
Sounds like an apologetic to bolster the bogus transportation cost argument. I am not buying it.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
Transportation may be higher "per dollar" shipped, but each dollar of coin is shipped at fed expense less frequently than each dollar of notes over a 30 to 50 year period.


The coins will never last for a 30 to 50 year period with the problem of counterfeiting.


Quote:
At best they are on par, but reality says paper is easier (and cheaper) to counterfeit. Reality also says paper notes are more profitable and easier to move for the forgers.


Not at all to be honest. The ones who can make passable paper concentrate on higher denominations, the paper mix is much harder to perfect than a transfer die fake type thing. There are far more operations that can pump out fake coins that would pass all day long in commerce than paper money ones.


Quote:
Sounds like an apologetic to bolster the bogus transportation cost argument. I am not buying it.


There's nothing to buy it's literally already happened in England. Less than 2 years later from their new anti-counterfeit switch there are already having issues with fakes again. Just look into fake pound coins, coins are much easier to sneak by the general public and merchants
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United States
189767 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
I still do not buy it. Believing it will happen at any significant scale is just borrowing trouble. I cannot see counterfeits becoming common enough to affect the billions of dollar coins that will be in circulation.

I am not sure why I even care to argue this at all. I maintain, as I have said before, that we will be cashless before congress ever does anything about the cent or the one dollar coin. This is true even you think cashless is a hundred years away.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2018  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
You quit making dollar bills and the speciality paper business at the BEP is cut in half.

Not really because the printing of two will (or should) greatly increase. There may be some reduction but not 50%.


Quote:
So in a roundabout way, they're basically being subsidized?!

The lawmakers are being subsidized, not the coin or note production.


Quote:
It is good that they are being put to some good use.

What is disturbing is the draw down rate of the dollar coins is declining, it used to be 6 million coins a month.


Quote:
what are these people thinking at the Mint!!

Mint doesn't have an say in the matter. The coins are authorized and if the Fed orders them they make them. But the Fed hasn't ordered and dollar coins since 2011. All dollar coins since than have been made for sale to collectors and really aren't adding to the stockpile, just to the mints profit line. And I doubt the Mint ASKED for the Innovations dollar.


Quote:
Easy fix, eliminate the $1 paper bill

That should have been done when they started issuing the Presidential dollars.

It should have been done when the started issuing the SBA's
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