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 Replies: 24 / Views: 6,197 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts |
I understand the concept of Die Deterioration, but how do they explain the apparent decrease in diameter of the die. The outside edge of the die appears to be reduced into the outside lettering ? If the die had it's edge reduced it would seem you would see a radical radius at that point ? Dan |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
75225 Posts |
Not sure how to explain it Panther, since it's kinda complicated. It's a very weird coin. It's a very interesting coin for sure. To shed some light on it, here's what Mike Diamond said about it's possible causes. From Coin World article: Quote:"A number of questions spring to mind when contemplating this specimen. (1) Is this a normal pattern of Die Deterioration simply taken to its logical extreme? The smooth surface texture of the distorted raised elements and the merging of design details suggests not. (2) Did the reverse die deteriorate slowly or quickly? The other Harpers Ferry error I spotted on ebay shows a slightly less distorted reverse design, indicating that the distortion was progressive. Still, the absence of other examples may indicate that the problem developed relatively quickly. (3) Was the obverse die changed out, with the distorted reverse die inexplicably left in service? Or were both dies installed at the same time, with only the reverse die deteriorating? At this point, I have no way to tell. If this proves not to be a conventional case of Die Deterioration taken to its maximum limit, then it should be classified as a die deformation error. Perhaps "detail-erasing die wear" would be a suitable moniker. Poor quality steel, the wrong grade of steel, or improper die preparation (annealing, tempering, quenching) could be responsible for the distortion." Errers and Varietys.
Edited by Errers and Varietys
02/09/2019 2:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts |
Thanks for the added info EV, every bit helps.
Dan
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2775 Posts |
Nice example E&V.  I think the later part of the last paragraph from the Coin World article sums it up. I'm thinking this die missed the boat, somewhere in the die preparation process. Thanks, Doug. Quote:If this proves not to be a conventional case of Die Deterioration taken to its maximum limit, then it should be classified as a die deformation error. Perhaps "detail-erasing die wear" would be a suitable moniker. Poor quality steel, the wrong grade of steel, or improper die preparation (annealing, tempering, quenching) could be responsible for the distortion. Edited by Halo1st
02/09/2019 7:24 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
75225 Posts |
You're very welcome Panther and thank you Halo1st for your feedback! I agree that this error most likely happened during the die preparation process, as it's not normal die wear. I compared it with my 1982 P LMC with severe Die Deterioration taken to its logical extreme and the die wear pattern wasn't the same. This die must have deteriorated pretty quickly and probably most likely only affected a single run, since there's not many confirmed examples. Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7520 Posts |
WOOO, What a beauty, I like it alot. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
75225 Posts |
Thank you very much Chase007! I had a feeling that you'd like it!  Errers and Varietys.
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
The fields are the highest (and flattest) points on the die... even if the die was deteriorating, why are the deepest parts of the die (highest devices) also affected equally?  I am hoping Mike (and maybe even Ken Potter) will weigh into this conversation... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
75225 Posts |
SPP-Ottawa, I'll contact Mike Diamond for you.
Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1781 Posts |
What I see is a very extreme case of Die Deterioration. I coined the phrase Premature Die Deterioration Doubling back in the 1980s (my thoughts on it first published in Error-Variety News in the early 1980s) and in this case that very certainly could be the what happened to this coin. Since I was not standing there when the coin was minted, and there is only one coin to examine and that only being photographically, I have no real way to prove what happened beyond that. I'd say calling it extreme Die Deterioration would be enough. Needle picking it to a point further is well ... pointless. What we know for sure is that it is a form of Die Deterioration and that it could be premature (due to improper die hardening, etc). We can speculate all we what but research based on one coin alone isn't going to get us any closer to any finer details as to what happened. As an aside, I think the most extreme example of Die Deterioration I've seen was on a coin from Napal but I've also seen one that was very extreme on a US States Quarter and one on a Jefferson nickel. I personally do not assign any value to such a coin as DD is not widely accepted as a "collectable" with any particular value except on Early American coins where they are often collected by distinguishable die states. Nonetheless it is a very extreme example and I can see somebody wanting to pay a premium to get an example of this. I paid a premium (though small) for the Nepalese piece just to get it in for photography/educational use. Interesting coin!  Edited by koinpro
02/12/2019 03:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1335 Posts |
happy hunting  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2740 Posts |
It's not a normal case of Die Deterioration. I would classify it as a type of die deformation error. It could be due to improper die treatment (annealing, quenching, tempering, etc.) or a faulty piece of die steel. In such cases, anything goes. Error coin writer and researcher.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
75225 Posts |
Thank you koinpro, cookiemontser, amd Mike Diamond for your comments! I appreciate your input. Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
75225 Posts |
Big-Kingdom, not in my eyes. I bought it, because it's not your normal case of Die Deterioration. Errers and Varietys.
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Replies: 24 / Views: 6,197 |
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First Page
Posted 02/09/2019 2:38 pm
