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 Replies: 22 / Views: 4,177 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3635 Posts |
VAM is still the best visual gatekeeper for all but one of the modern counterfeits.* All of the counterfeit compositions will fail at least one of the big three tests (weight, specific gravity, or Eddy Current slide). When they're in counterfeit slabs, those tests are out the window, and it's much more difficult. When they use universal hubs, the dates and mint marks are sloppy on many of them (including this one). When they use transfer dies, the obverse and reverse are commonly mismatched. That's my best argument for VAMming every online Morgan. The handful of "super counterfeits" seem to be laser-cut dies, but those transfer every surface scratch from the original coins. The next generation, though, will replicate the original diemaking process and will be brutal. * There is a VAM-correct transfer die 1899-O that looks at first glance like every other ugly EF 1899-O in pawn shop junk silver bins. The weight is within tolerance and it passes an Eddy Current slide test, but specific gravity is way off. I'll have to hunt down my notes for the VAM, but it's one of the common slanted date VAMs. Even a blind squirrel . . .
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
Scary for sure, better than the majority at first glance.
And thanks as always to fortcollins for the always helpful additional insight.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10034 Posts |
Side by side with large pics, it can be seen tiny details are off. Such as the lips, nostril shape, and eye are all wrong. I am sure there are others, I just stopped looking. This level of comparison often shows the fakes.
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New Member
United States
16 Posts |
I fell victim to this counterfeit, because of greed. I closed in on "20 Morgan dollars for $200." Counterfeit never entered my mind. I didn't bother to check the valu of the date. I actually thought $30 of silver for $10. Regrets began right after payment. The coins are slabbed as if certified by PCGS except for one minor detail. All 20 have the Exact Same ID number, with no hyphen. I'm going to eventually turn them in to the secret service, although, selling them as raw copper has its appeal |
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Moderator
 United States
188080 Posts |
 to the Community, BobTeel55. I hate that it is not under better circumstances. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
@BobTeel55 I would contact PCGS about it. Somebody who has access to 20 fake slabs all with the same cert# isn't a one-off scammer. PCGS would have the resources and motivation to go after them.
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Forum Dad
United States
24154 Posts |
They are most likely in China though.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Quote:
They are most likely in China though. Even so, they have an address they're shipping these from, they have an account where the money goes, and PCGS has offices in China. It can't hurt to alert them. |
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Forum Dad
United States
24154 Posts |
Can't hurt but won't help. China doesn't care. It's legal there. They sell them openly on the street.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
Yes. As long as its not modern dates circulated Yuan, anything goes in China.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6384 Posts |
The alloy for the fake 1880-CC (copper, zinc, nickel, manganese, silver) would have significantly lower specific gravity than coin silver. For the weight to be so close to the correct value this piece would have to be extra thick. I would expect you could easily see the difference just by viewing it side-by-side with a genuine Morgan.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10034 Posts |
Quote:
I'm going to eventually turn them in to the secret service, although, selling them as raw copper has its appeal
With a huge amount of fakes out there, I am very sure the Secret Service is well aware of what's going on and, quite honestly probably couldn't care less. And since it is not illegal in the United States to own counterfeit coins and currency, there really is no reason to go to all that trouble just to get rid of these fake coins. Of course they would not even be a face value reimbursement to you. If you want to make sure no one else gets taken by them, break them out of the slabs (just used a hammer to help that won't matter) and then in someway totally deface the coins. Pounding them flat with a sledgehammer would work, cutting them in half with a bandsaw would work, etc. Or you could spend around 40 bucks and get a counter stamp made that says copy, stamp them, and use them for teaching others would fakes look like. Quote:
The alloy for the fake 1880-CC (copper, zinc, nickel, manganese, silver) would have significantly lower specific gravity than coin silver. For the weight to be so close to the correct value this piece would have to be extra thick. I would expect you could easily see the difference just by viewing it side-by-side with a genuine Morgan. The thickness used to be a dead giveaway on some of these. But I have 3 rolls of fake Morgan's with varying mint marks that were tested and found not to be silver, and yet their thickness and diameter is right on as well as the wight being within Weight Tolerances. They also have proper looking milled edge whereas the fakes from a few years ago had very straight ridges that did not taper at the ends like a real Morgan. So some of the Chinese are doing their homework. When people post to forums what gives away the fakes they have, the makers of these have been learning to make changes to adapt. It's a vicious circle. They do fail the magnetic slide test. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Forum Dad
United States
24154 Posts |
Quote:
So some of the Chinese are doing their homework. When people post to forums what gives away the fakes they have, the makers of these have been learning to make changes to adapt. It's a vicious circle. We have them register themselves periodically. Whenever I see a new member post a counterfeit I check their IP. When you see they supplied US as a country, but they are in China or another "counterfeiting place" they get blocked from the forum. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10034 Posts |
How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
517 Posts |
I also review the VAMs for reverse mm placement when researching counterfeits; there appears to be no VAM for 1880-CC with that mintmark placement. Two of the bad CC's in bad PCGS slabs have a similar close placement of the mm's to the ribbon; the bad 1881-CC on the left, 1883-CC in the middle and this one on the right. I have actually started a long string of reported bad PCGS slabs and coins on the CU Forum.  |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 4,177 |
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First Page
Posted 02/16/2022 9:45 pm
