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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,202 |
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Valued Member
Canada
200 Posts |
Fair enough. Perhaps I overthought the comment.
And again - it is an ugly coin!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
636 Posts |
Ugly indeed, I'm still shaiking my head over this.
Why would anyone knowingly send in such a coin for certification?
Crazy....
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Valued Member
Canada
168 Posts |
ICCS does the same. I have seen coins from them with the word 'corrosion' on the descriptor. I always try to read the grading descriptor on any coin I am interested in. scratches, corrosion, cleaned, NBU AHHHH!!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
 There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the way this was graded.A If it is a MS63, then that is the grade in the TPG's opinion. the descriptor in the flip is marked that the coin has scratches. And that is the grade with scratches!Period!  B The person who submitted it wanted it graded because perhaps a higher grade was anticipated!  That person paid for a service provided by a TPG. The service and contract is to provide an opinion to the submitter for a fee. Exactly that very thing is what happened! Nothing more, nothing less. Had the grader sent it back ungraded, the graders fee would have still applied. This way it is entirely up to whomever, to take a pair of scissors and cut it out. AND, NEVER mind which grader it is! Montreal or Toronto, does not matter as the service contracted for was provided.! Fact in short: a service was requested, received, and paid for!! If anything should be questioned here, it is the submitters judgment...   What did he expect? perhaps the coin coming back without scratches?  ? Edited by hhbkiddo
04/26/2010 09:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
636 Posts |
Kiddo...you missing the point and Ill be more than happy to re-iterate.
Drop the Quebec/Toronto thing.,...its a non issue..period. I'm this far from going back up to that post and editing it out...gezzzz.
Now, if you can get past that, under normal cirumstances and based on MS63 criteria, doesn't these deep scratches take away the opportunity from this coin from ever being granted a MS63 grade?
If so then where is the protection for the non-educated consumer that he got what he though he was getting.
2010 Charlton describes a MS63 for a George 6th as no traces of wear, original mint lustre, will have minor contact marks and blemishes.
This is much more than a minor contact mark.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
If that coin was in a US TPG holder, it would be labeled as MS60 Details, Scratched or Uncirculated Details, Scratched and it would be considered a problem(read: damaged) coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
$48, YES, it is more than a minor mark, BUT not a contact mark. IT is scratched and marked as such! I have coins here that are graded by a TPG exactly as they are with their faults marked. If it is scratches, it is marked . If it is other damage, it is marked. However, the coin is graded as for whatever grade it is as a coin. If your point is that this might be misleading to a possible buyer, well maybe. But probably NOT. Nothing is hidden or disguised. It is buyer be ware!! further, if we had the coin in hand RAW, we could perhaps determine if the damage was mint damage or circulation damage. This damage appears to be severe. Question is also: is there any evidence of circulation? as far as the 2 TPG's go, I did not originally "open" that door. That was someone else. I will try and use an example: I submit a high grade 1858 1 cent with light verdigris on a few spots.NO other marks whatsoever, except perhaps some microscopic things which every coin has. do you think it will come back as a 1858 1 cent MS 66 or as a 1 Cent MS66 and as remark: Verdigris spots ? Would this be a misleading description? OR would you expect the TPG to ignore it? If I missed your actual point perhaps it is that maybe I do not understand what you were getting at? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
Hypothetically, the coin could be MS. For instance, I could go to the bank right now, grab a roll of 2010 nickels (still in mint wrapping), take a coin out, and scratch it all up with a knife (or anything). The fact is, the coin still hasn't been circulated, it shows no WEAR. I feel, in such circumstances, if I send the coin in to a grading company, they have two options: grade the coin or don't. If they do grade the coin, then it must receive a grade of at least MS60. They can qualify the grade with a "scratched" comment, but the coin itself must be MS60 or higher.
I suspect, in this case, that CCCS noted the scratches, and then pondered the question "if the scratches weren't present, what would I grade this coin?" At which point, the coin was given a grade of MS 63, with the scratched comment.
That is my opinion on the matter.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
I thought he was wondering why the owner would bother to have it graded.... so was I , that's why I pondered whether it was submitted during the CCCS start up special. If you submit a coin with a hole in it to a TPG, they'll grade it. You may not like the grade, but it'll get graded even if it's "genuine 0". I still don't understand why the owner would bother to grade such a common coin with such a huge scratch... some people have more money than brains. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
Maybe he was just curious as to what they would say about it! I doubt he had it graded cause he thought it was a gorgeous coin. Who hasn't had a thought go threw there head before of "hmm, this isn't worth much, but I wonder what ICCS/CCCS would think of this one?" There was a discussion on here recently about how TPG's would treat a coin that is AU on one side and VF on the other. I know the thought crossed my mind to take a worthless AU coin, and try to wear one side down to a Fine and send it in. It could have just been an experiment. Or he could just be an idiot (look at the CCCS population reports, there's some coins more recent than 2000 with grades of EF or lower, and I'm not talking about error coins either). |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1248 Posts |
Just spoke with CCCS
and here is the answer, just as I thought and noted before:
A - the coin was submitted to be graded. there was NO reason given why and NO question was asked.
B - the coin was graded as a NONE damaged coin, with perhaps a slight deduction because of the
damage.
C - then the damage on the coin was noted,recorded on the descriptor and sealed.
CCCS would NOT speculate why someone would submit a coin like that, as it is NOT their business to ask these questions. It was suggested that such things happen every day and that it is NOT unusual that someone submits a bunch of coins worth not more than 3 or 4 dollars each, just to have them all uniformly graded to fit in to a collection.
They also said that it is up to every buyer of a coin to decide HOW much they want to pay for it under the listed circumstances.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
Just as I suspected. Thanks for investigating hhb!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I didn't read this whole thread just a few of the responses and I have to say I am a little saddened by some of them. I don't know how many times we have seen coins in PCGS/NGC/ANACS/PCI slabs that we didn't agree with the grade and someone has posted a link to ask if anyone agreed with them that the grading company made a mistake here and no one ever thought there was some kind of hidden motive behind the question, but as soon as a member does the same thing and it be with a Canadian grading company everyone gets offensive. I don't understand why. If you agree with the grade just state so and why, if you agree with the op that its graded incorrectly then also state so and move on. Please remember even if you do not like the way someone has answered a question in the past (not saying that is what is happening here) or if they have made a remark that hit you the wrong way in the past (again not saying that is what is happening here) Each and everyone of us are members here trying to gain more education in this hobby and help when we can for that purpose and deserves the respect from ALL other members just as you would want if it were you asking the question. If you can't do that then please just pass by the thread all together because we all know there are some with more knowledge in a particular field than others but no need to take anything personal when someone is trying to better themselves with knowledge by asking a question or to just get others opinions on a particular item
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Now that I got the above taken care of I will post my thoughts on the question: Just as was said by a couple members if the coin is a MS coin then it doesn't really matter if it was scratched/corroded/bent or anything else it still remains a MS coin, it just now has problems. It would be the same if was sent to one of the grading companies in the US (except PCGS) where they would give it a grade on the condition on the coin, they would just call it a details grade and then make a note of the reason its not in a problem free slab (example UNC Details) ANACS would go a little further and if it were a MS-63 coin they would call it MS-63 Details and note the reason. I see nothing wrong with calling a coin Mint State even when it has problems as long as the problems are noted. There are plenty of cases where the grader must have been wearing sun glasses or had their eyes dilated the day some coins crossed their desk because their assessment is just plain wrong by calling some of the coins problem free or even their assessment of grade is totally wrong, but it does happen and allot more than most of us would like
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Valued Member
Canada
200 Posts |
Bryan - Your first post is well stated.
I accept that my "contribution" did nothing to further the conversation.
Thanks for the reminder.
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Posted 04/26/2010 08:40 am
