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Newbie Question :: Silver Coins

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 08/04/2010  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carmykle to your friends list
Great, ain't love grand?
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 Posted 08/04/2010  8:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add novillero to your friends list
Here are a few lessons I have learned in junk silver:

- the smaller the denomination, the more it was probably used and might be worn coins. I recently put 50 mercs in a plastic coin container and felt that I could have fit 7 more coins in there. Hence, for junk dimes I look for Roosies over mercs (although I like a good merc more).

- the same theory for older coins, the generally have more wear. You can tell I like a good thick coin!

- anything less than 90% is easy to pick up, but generally harder to get rid of - at least close to melt. If you are looking at these, get a good deal to make it worth it.

- keep stacking. Dollar cost average.

- I buy bullion too. Being in the U.S., I am partial to Eagles. Generally speaking, anything from a national mint (U.S., Canada, Australia, etc.) will carry a higher premium than something from a private mint (sunshine, JM, Engelhard). I like to go for things that are going to be more recognizable in my part of the world. For some that doesn't matter, but something to consider.

- don't buy from China.

- buy what you like, but also develop a strategy so you don't just buy things on the spur. Strategies can always change, but don't blow your cash on something you may regret or that will take you off course.

- enjoy.
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 Posted 08/04/2010  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add novillero to your friends list
I would also add, don't buy junk or bullion expecting numismatics.
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 08/04/2010  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list
1) Is there anything wrong with purchasing circulated Walking Liberties...from highly rated sellers on ebay...I'm referencing the current "melt" price to determine the underlying silver value?

Very good way to go.

2) My only concern at this point...is getting fake coins. This does not seem likely to me, but what's the best way to check these particular coins?

Common-date, circulated Walker halves are rarely counterfeited. If you buy them in Good to Very Fine condition, there is virtually no chance on getting a counterfeit.

3) In reviewing the prices on various Walking Liberties I see that most have an identical value, but there are a few years that are special.

Many Walkers from the teens and twenties are better dates. Once you get into the thirties and forties, almost none are better dates.
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 Posted 08/04/2010  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GABOT to your friends list
@Tim Stroud: That's an interesting point about the numismatic value being a sort of hedge against metal price declines. I'm interested in numismatics a bit and might start pecking away if I learn enough reading here and other places. (I did notice a slabbed coin on ebay the other day for about 20% less than what a dealer was offering it to me for... it got me thinking. But that's phase-two for me.)

@StJoeBlues: I'm trying to PM/Email you but I'm getting an error. I'll check with the Admin.

@novillero: Those are cool points - I'm thinking I will lean towards larger denom 90% silver coins.

@bherring1964: All that gives me more confidence, so thank you. It seemed like a valid approach but I was wondering if I was missing something. Glad I found this forum. :-)
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 Posted 08/04/2010  11:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RollHunter to your friends list
Couple points I've learned:

If you're just looking silver content go with more common coins like 64 Kennedy halves or Franklin halves. There are oodles of 64 Kennedy's out there and not a huge demand from collectors (you only need two for your Kennedy album).

Dimes have the lowest premium over spot (opposite of bullion where fractional coins have a higher premium) - especially Roosies since there aren't any real keys. Dollar coins sell for way over spot. Often you can buy very nice Roosies or even Mercs from a dealer's junk bucket that have a decent numismatic value over spot. I've flipped a few mercs on ebay that I bought for spot and then sold for a few bucks more. You won't make much money but it can be a good start to learn cherry picking.

Be careful when you sell too and do a little research into the coins you hold. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has bought a key or a semi-key in a junk lot or bought a junk lot of 40% halves and found 90% halves in it.

You can usually buy 40% halves for under spot, but so can everyone else which is why they are hard to sell. Like novillero says, don't waste your time unless you are getting a deal.

You can almost always buy junk War Nickels for under spot but they're really hard to sell over spot and they're illegal to melt. Maybe that's an investment opportunity, but only if you can get them dirt cheap. Be warned though that there are a lot of misinformed people out there who think nickels from 64 and below are all silver and will try to sell common nickels for War Nickel prices.
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 Posted 08/05/2010  07:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add novillero to your friends list
If you buy slabbed, make sure it it is from a reputable grading company! There are some that have very poor reputations and it would be a waste of money to think you are getting something you are not.

As rollhunter said, higher denominations like Morgans and Peace are always sold for over spot. (But everyone has a soft spot for a Morgan). I don't concentrate on them for that reason.

As to bullion fractionals, I made that mistake once (silver 1/10). Did not read the ebay sale closely and was shocked when the coin arrived! They sell for way over spot.
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 Posted 08/05/2010  08:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list
If you've been following gold in the last couple of months, you'd see a zigzag pattern, from 1200, to 1240ish, back down to 1200, and below to 1170, then back up to 1190s. Silver, on the other hand, hasn't dipped below 15-16 in a while, and really hasn't broken 20 either for a bit, ranging from high 17s to low 19s if lucky. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw silver hit 30-35 in my lifetime. This is from memory, I'm not looking at any charts right now, but you have to decide what your personal bottoms and highs are, and play with that. You say you're investing, so go with American Eagles. They are the most accepted bullion from the looks of it, the most liquid.

In respect to WLs, they are a good starting point, but make sure you get a good deal - meaning, buy in bulk to reduce the overall cost. And if you're investing these, do you have a market wherein you can dump them when you hit your personal
high?

Good luck!
If you're worried about getting fake coins from the Bay, then I would so some heavy research on top sellers by going through all of the customer feedback, filtering out the obvious customers that are happy no matter what. In person, though, you can watch out for lead. It hasn't a density very very close to silver and nonmagnetic. Can be a lead core with plating, so make sure your dealer is reputable! (This last part is talking about bullion, not WLs.) When you're comfortable enough buying silver you can get generic rounds from private mints. They have a low premium but may be harder thatn AEs to liquidate when you need the money.
Edited by Libertad
08/05/2010 08:18 am
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 Posted 08/05/2010  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GABOT to your friends list
@Rollhunter & Libertad:

You've both brought up a GREAT point - selling. I've assumed so far (based on what I've read and heard recommended) that the Walkers and other 90% silver coins should be easy to sell... but are there any gotchas or? My goal right now is investing in the metals (silver and gold) first, with a secondary concern about numismatics. I'm not trying to build a collection, so to speak, but looking to buy the metal now and sell it at some point in the future at a higher price. Are there basic rules for staying "liquid" in terms of Junk Silver (Walkers and other 90% coins)? Like I wonder if certain dealers will only buy in a certain quantity, etc.

@novillero - I'm under the impressing NGC is the best and generally reliable for basic gold numismatic purchases (e.g. St. Gaudens).
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 Posted 08/05/2010  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add madduxxx to your friends list
As far as selling, I find pretty much all 90% to be easy to sell. Check around your local coin shops, pawn shops, jewelers, basically anyone that buys PMs and find out what they offer for junk and compare with internet values. (This will also give you a better idea what you should be buying at.) Some buy by a multiple of face value and others buy by weight. Finding out who does what will offer another avenue to exploit for profit or at the very least help you get the best deal for your junk.
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 Posted 08/05/2010  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list

Quote:
If you've been following gold in the last couple of months, you'd see a zigzag pattern, from 1200, to 1240ish, back down to 1200, and below to 1170, then back up to 1190s. Silver, on the other hand, hasn't dipped below 15-16 in a while, and really hasn't broken 20 either for a bit, ranging from high 17s to low 19s if lucky.


Which means gold has been trading in a tighter range than silver. I didn't look at any charts, and assumed a $1.50 range for silver, a swing of over 8%. Not sure what, if any, conclusion can be drawn from that.

Bedrock of the Community
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10982 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2010  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list

Quote:
Are there basic rules for staying "liquid" in terms of Junk Silver (Walkers and other 90% coins)? Like I wonder if certain dealers will only buy in a certain quantity, etc.


All 90% is liquid but I prefer halves. Watch out for heavily worn "slicks" which are underweight. If the condition of the coin is below G04, you can be sure it's underweight. Some people will not want "slicks".

Many dealers only want "roll" quantities and large dealers often have a minimum dollar amount (i.e. $500) to make a buy. Also remember that 90% silver is calculated using the 0.715 multiplier. Face Value X 0.715 X Spot Price = Total Value.

Good Luck!
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 Posted 08/05/2010  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add StJoeBlues to your friends list
One thing about silver - there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that shows corporations and governments manipulating the price of silver to keep it low. The historical gold/silver price ratio is way out of whack. I believe that historically it's been around 15/1, but right now it's 65/1.

Some of these companies have way more silver obligations on paper than what they have available in physical inventory. People are wising up to the fragility of the Federal Reserve Note system and starting to demand their physical silver be delivered to them.

There is also evidence that these silver manipulation entities are getting close to losing control of the price of silver. If/when that happens, you will either see some major companies going out of business, or (if they are "too big to fail") receiving another government bailout. Either way, the price of silver could bounce back in line with the historical ratio.

But what do I know? I'm just a lysdexic English major working for an accounting department. I have seen counter arguments to the scenario outlined above. Who's really right? Please do your own research.

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 Posted 08/08/2010  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinshopworker to your friends list
all good information regarding 90%. I would only add that a silver half dollar has slightly more silver in it than two quarters or 5 dimes, so if you can get halves for the same price you may want to purchase those. I know that wholesale they can receive .2 x face premium (12.7 vs. 12.5, for example). And I agree with Stjoeblues, but my suggestion would be to hold both gold and silver just in case. I too would hold physical gold and silver over ETFs for a long term holding. Short term I'd hold the ETFs due to the smaller buy/sell spread, since I don't see the reality noted above coming in the short term.
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 Posted 08/13/2010  06:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 925dealer to your friends list
I love 90% silver bullion aka "junk" silver. Just learn how to value it using multiples. Currently the going rate is about 12.5 times face and dealers are buying at 11 times face. I am getting between 13.5 and 15 times face for my stuff on ebay.

90% silver is very liquid and is a great way to protect you from inflation. Remember my opinion is that the price of gold and silver are not going up. Instead the value of the paper fiat currency is going down.

You can also find numismatic coins in bullion although it is not guaranteed. I like Mercury dimes and the Walking Liberty halves for potential numismatic finds. Best wishes on your searches! Sincerely, John Leckrone
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