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1889 P Morgan Dollar High 9 VAM It!

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 04/03/2011  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
VfM has already pointed out to me that my notion of die radius is not all encompassing (and possibly just plain wrong), and now you too provide your own evidence to that end, and although I cannot discern the exact features that you speak of, I will certainly take your word for it.... I am no coin expert by any stretch of the imagination Mike.

I do have to wonder though, about the cause for each of these clashes in what I consider to be abnormal locations... were these the results of dies that were basined with a deformed polishing plate? The apparent lack of die convexity is counter intuitive to my idea of what should or could be found.

I think that maybe we are victims of our own expectations Gene.... Dave verifies that you and I saw things through rose colored glasses, and that these things never actually were the way that we remember them to be.... classification was the rule then as now, but we saw only what we wanted to see, (and that was 'the die is the die')..... it was a rather Utopian notion (even for dreamers like us).
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 Posted 04/03/2011  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
I would much prefer that Morgans be classified by die. It's the "right" way to classify coins. In the case of Morgans, almost certainly not possible and you've played a large role in my realizing this, zeewool.

Heck, even hub-level classification will likely require 60x magnification of every single coin which doesn't lack "smoking gun" pickups. If it can be done. The preparation technology of this period was too far advanced.
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 Posted 04/03/2011  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
I'm trying to come up with something intelligent to say in response, but as usual, I am coming up empty handed....
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 Posted 04/04/2011  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list
Well, I thought it would be a good idea to buy a few raw Morgans once in a while just to VAM them here, post the images and descriptions of the PUPs on the site for future reference, then sell them and buy more to repeat the cycle.

I've posted many high resolution images that most can only dream about, with lighting from many different angles, and stated several times that I see no clashing at all. But yet when I don't respond with more information in a day I get a backhand accusation at trickery. Then we get bogus doctored photos posted to stir the pot and confuse things even more.

It was a silly idea I guess. Lesson learned.
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 Posted 04/04/2011  4:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list

Quote:
Well, I thought it would be a good idea to buy a few raw Morgans once in a while just to VAM them here, post the images and descriptions of the PUPs on the site for future reference, then sell them and buy more to repeat the cycle.

I agree, good idea.


Quote:
I've posted many high resolution images that most can only dream about, with lighting from many different angles,

Again I agree, most excellent images.


Quote:
and stated several times that I see no clashing at all.

I count two times on page #1, but that was good enough for me.


Quote:
Then we get bogus doctored photos

Yes, and I posted it for a reason.


Quote:
posted to stir the pot and confuse things even more.

And that was definitely NOT the reason...... I posted the picture tongue in cheek to lighten the atmosphere of what I considered to be a deterioration into argument and hard feelings.


Quote:
It was a silly idea I guess.

No, the original idea was a great one..... what you are thinking right now is silly.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 04/05/2011  05:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
Bobby, I am publicly apologizing for being rude to you in my last post.... You have given us all so much in the creation and continued maintenance of this site, and ask little in return other than civility..... I am ashamed that on far too many occasions, I have failed to achieve that standard.... I am sorry...
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 Posted 04/05/2011  08:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Bobby, I wish to put in words what I feel on this topic to you.
I NEVER meant any malice or dis-respect in ANY way in my words, I have a strong drive at times and it is obviously taken out of context when read by others, The entire notion of me attempting to be rude or rash towards you was blown well out of context and my original statement was NEVER meant to cause any problems........Please except my apology for the feelings you mentioned about my actions

This is a great venue for all to enjoy the Numismatic wonders and for this I sincerely Thank you.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 04/06/2011  12:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
So, I think that the coin in question can be definitively identified/classified as vam-7....... vam-7 and its variants are the only high 9 varieties, and vam-7 is singular in the non-clashed form..... while online images can be deceiving (despite the quality of the images), this particular coin has been verified by the bearer as non-clashed...... by the current variety designations as of April 5th, 2011, this coin fits the parameters of vam-7 only.... it cannot be otherwise.
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 Posted 04/06/2011  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
I'm really upset that my last post was not listed. but you probably are all glad
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 Posted 04/06/2011  12:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
This topic got out of hand do its being on the virge of being april fools day, and Bobby submits a coin where we have an coin thats in the middle, clashes? no clashes.. a perfect argument for all...I personnally thought it was supposed to be an 1889 vam23A that had been die erroaded out of existance or thought to be? My thoughts were..HE KNOWS SOMETHING...and we all ate the bait. we are all looking for the gun when the smoke is missing....
A perfect topic for us guys n gals here...
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 Posted 04/06/2011  12:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
I don't know about that Gene, but satisfaction is only fleeting when response is made during a heightened emotional state.... I have plenty of regrets that far outweigh the snappiest momentary retort.
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 Posted 04/06/2011  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
Wow.... that 23A has some most serious clashing 'eh Gene? Looks like Liberty was a long term smoker and had a tracheotomy as a result.
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 Posted 04/06/2011  12:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list
hope this replys, as the last 3 failed. think I had dead batteries in the keyboard
We are common allies and adversaries. seeking to understand what its all about.. and Zee you have mail..
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 Posted 04/06/2011  01:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list
I don't view anyone here as an adversary..... I certainly hope that I am not naive?
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 Posted 04/06/2011  10:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list


What die the lower die say to the upper die just before they clashed?


("Gimme' a break").


What did the lower die say to the upper die right after they clashed?


("You crack me up").

I personally don't believe that clashes are the cause of breaks and cracks, but just some tongue in cheek humor for those who do...
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