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Neat German Coal Dust Notgeld 500 Mark

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publius's Avatar
United States
807 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2016  05:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add publius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've read that most of the "coin" type notgeld, whether metal, porcelain, or other materials, was intended as souvenirs, & in some cases made available after the crisis was over. Certainly there are lots of paper issues which seem to have been printed up for quasi-commemorative purposes, & are found in pristine condition.

Still, despite my preference for definitively circulating issues, I'd rather like to have one of these coal-dust pieces, for its unique character.
Edited by publius
05/17/2016 05:51 am
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2016  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I've read that most of the "coin" type notgeld, whether metal, porcelain, or other materials, was intended as souvenirs, & in some cases made available after the crisis was over


That is not correct. From 1916-1922, the metal Notgeld pieces were issued due to necessity, and most saw heavy circulation. The Westphalia issues of 1922-1923 are the primary exception to this, and these were issued more as medals. These are the large issues, some gilt bronze, and many with the rearing horse.

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DL20K's Avatar
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2016  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed, the coins have signs of circulation more often than not.

But what about the circulation of notgeld notes, if that's not too off topic?

The early wartime ones (1914-19) often seem circulated, and so do those with their face value in the millions (1923).
On the other hand, those that were issued inbetween (1920-22), often with weird values like 75 pfennig and 20 different designs for one denomination, seem to usually be either UNC or nearly so.
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2016  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know quite little about banknotes in general, so I cannot help much on that...

I do know the notes are quite readily available UNC in Europe to this day, so I would guess that many did not circulate...

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Redbarchettayyz's Avatar
Canada
71 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2016  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Redbarchettayyz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd never heard of these coal dust marks, really very cool. I'd love to get my hands on one just to see how they feel (and as for the coal smell, I love it!).
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UltraRant's Avatar
Norway
1358 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  06:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add UltraRant to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I recently got offered the chance to buy a series of 3 times 3 leather slabs with print on them, which apparently were used as Notgeld, where the colors used and the size apparently determined the value of the slab. As the price was 250 Euro, I left them there. Still I like the idea of so many different creative solutions for having a currency. I just wonder how Germans kept up with knowing what was 'legal' tender and what not, as there have been way over 100.000 different pieces in circulation in the interbellum.
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United States
331 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2018  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nautilator to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pardon the old bump but these aren't a common thing. I just got ahold of my third one of these and was wondering if anybody else has handled them. There's something a little strange about my latest one...

Neat-German-Coal-Dust-Notgeld-500-Mark
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casualcoincollector's Avatar
United States
574 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2018  03:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add casualcoincollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@nautilator,

Let me guess, your latest one seems to have a slightly to somewhat glossy finish? While your other ones have a matte finish?
Edited by casualcoincollector
03/18/2018 03:32 am
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casualcoincollector's Avatar
United States
574 Posts
 Posted 03/20/2018  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add casualcoincollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@nautilator,

Ok, now that I have found the photos that I was looking for I think I can explain why your newest one looks like it does.

Everyone seems to be under the impression that these "coal dust" Notgeld coins are made of just compressed coal dust and nothing else (I used to think that too) but from my experience that is not entirely correct. These coins are indeed made of compressed coal dust but I'm almost positive that they also contain a wax binder as well. I assume that this was to give them some added strength and to stop from disintegrating to easily.

I came to this conclusion after the biggest numismatic screw-up that I have ever had. I had actually purchased the 1000 mark coal Notgeld coin that was featured earlier in this thread from jdmern when he listed it on ebay a while back (please see the first photo). Then one night I accidently left the item on my desk out of its case next to a window. The next day was an unusually hot day and the sun shined directly on that desk for several hours during the day. The next time I looked at the coin I noticed to my dismay that the coin had definitely over heated and had sweated some form of clear wax (please see the second two photos). This gave the coin a slightly glossy sheen/finish.

So, the moral of the story here is that these coal Notgeld coins seem to be relatively sensitive to high temperatures and if you let these coins over heat they may damage themselves and start sweating wax.

I have yet to find any official proof or documentation that a wax binder was used but based on what I have seen I'm pretty sure this is the case. Please let me know if you have any questions for me or would like any clarification.

Neat-German-Coal-Dust-Notgeld-500-Mark
Neat-German-Coal-Dust-Notgeld-500-Mark
Neat-German-Coal-Dust-Notgeld-500-Mark
Edited by casualcoincollector
03/20/2018 7:48 pm
Valued Member
United States
331 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2018  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nautilator to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The glossier finish is indeed one thing. But there's quite a bit more... and I really don't know what to make of it. Check this out.

Neat-German-Coal-Dust-Notgeld-500-Mark
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casualcoincollector's Avatar
United States
574 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2018  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add casualcoincollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@nautilator,

Hmm. I see what you mean. an original Coal 500 Mark should be approximately 50mm in diameter and approximately 5mm thick. I haven't heard or come across any records of any that were larger or smaller than that being made and I'm kind of doubting that there would be more than one legitimate size of the 500 Mark since I just don't see why someone would make two different sizes for a coin that had a total mintage of only 2,499 but then again I just don't know.

I can't tell from your photos but is there a period carved into the coin after the carved serial number? All of the originals that I have seen have a period after the serial number.

One thought does occur to me though. I'm wondering if it could be a museum replica or something along those lines since I have heard that in order to get around the laws that require that a replica coin must be stamped with the word "copy" or "replica" the producing entity would change the size of the coin so that it could not be confused with an original when compared but once again that's a complete guess and I just don't know.

Below are photos of the two Coal 500 Marks that I had gotten certified by PCGS last year for your comparison. They are exactly the same size and approximately 50mm in diameter.

I wish I could be of more help here but this is outside my knowledge on these coins. Please let me know if you have any questions for me.

Neat-German-Coal-Dust-Notgeld-500-Mark
Neat-German-Coal-Dust-Notgeld-500-Mark
Valued Member
United States
331 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2018  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nautilator to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did not notice the period until you mentioned it. My smaller ones have it, this larger one doesn't. It's probably not easily visible, but the serial number is much shallower than the other two as well.

And the weight is almost exactly 33% more than the smaller numbers. I was thinking lower serial number = earlier issue, which may have been downsized later, and thus there may be varieties to this.
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casualcoincollector's Avatar
United States
574 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2018  06:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add casualcoincollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, now I'm confused.

I just came across this Coal 500 mark on the PCGS website (link and photo below). The serial number is 2516. All of the mintage records that I have come across for these state that the total mintage is 2499. So, there shouldn't be a 2516 serial number. right?

So are the mintage records wrong? Is this one fake? Was this one a blank and some scratched a random serial number into it and PCGS accidently certified it?

https://www.PCGS.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=623376

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chafemasterj's Avatar
United States
6514 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2018  08:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chafemasterj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great thread
Check out my counterstamped Lincoln Cent collection:
http://goccf.com/t/303507
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jdmern's Avatar
United States
1949 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2018  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am convinced the numbers listed for mintages are wrong. There are absolutely genuine pieces with no 'kontrolnummer' etched. I have also read somewhere, that mintages for 2 of the denominations were closer to 10,000 pieces, while another source had listed 3500 pieces for one denomination, and 3,000 for the others.
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