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Replies: 65 / Views: 6,853 |
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Valued Member
United States
51 Posts |
That is absolutely ignorant that just because a personal, and yes I did say personal, motto is not on a coin it should be boycotted. It is a personal motto because not all Americans believe in God, or even a divine being at that. This country was founded on religious and personal freedom, but do you really feel free when you are surrounded by an motto reflecting 1 religion? What happened to separation of Church and State? I understand that Gus has a proud military history, and its exemplary so have contributed so much to America's freedom, but think of this. Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Atheists, all have also fought for US freedom and defense of our Constitution. Is their fighting less worthy? Why don't they get their deities stamped on national coinage? It is only fair to everyone that it be taken off, coins existed for years without the motto, and they were just as usable. Individuals must learn that this is the UNITED States, and that not everyone is united via god.
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Valued Member
United States
128 Posts |
Quote: same types of morons who come into a gas station and don't even remember what pump they're on when there are two large numbers, one on the pump itself at eye level and another up on the top part of the pump. Ahhha, so thats what those numbers on the pump are for!? 
Edited by ptb 06/02/2008 4:30 pm
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Valued Member
United States
204 Posts |
I've always been in favor of changing the motto to "In Freedom We Trust". It seems to be something most people support (kinda) and something our country tries to export (albeit with mixed results). Kinda strange debate IMHO, since it started about the new dollar coins - most of which will never see the light of day  ! Poor Presidential coins - can't even generate enough interest to remain the topic of a thread about them  
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
I've tried to tell my friends and family who emailed me about this subject to look on the coin's rim.. but none of them have ever SEEN one to actually look. They were just forwarding, forwarding, forwarding, like usual Quote: some opinions are more valid than others No opinion is actually valid, just from its nature. An opinion can be based on however much backup one pleases; it's still an opinion and not fact. o·pin·ion Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn] -noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. 2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. In other words: Give 300 reasons why you have your current opinion, and it equals the same as another person who states their opinion without citing why they feel that way. And, thanks to our constitution, both opinions have the right to be expressed! Quote: Or, how about Liberty, Schmiberty, send em to Gitmo! LOL morgantype.... One must remember that in the Declaration of Independence, it is stated "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.." Any mention of a Creator or God was specifically kept out of the Constitution, but it's definitely there in the DoI. Personally, (oh no, another opinion!) I don't mind that it's there - but I wouldn't mind if it wasn't, either. Our founding fathers were worried about looking like heathens to future generations if it wasn't on our coinage, but I don't find I need any reminder on my pocket change to tell me what I do or do not believe. Along the lines of bringing this back into a discussion of the coins it is placed on, this is an interesting article published on the subject in the New York Times in 1907: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archiv...&oref=slogin
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Moderator
 United States
189010 Posts |
Quote: I don't mind that it's there - but I wouldn't mind if it wasn't, either... I don't find I need any reminder on my pocket change to tell me what I do or do not believe.  I know my belief structure is probably in the minority, but having the motto there does not really bother me since I understand the historical context. If it were removed now or in the future, I would neither lead a protest nor throw a celebration. IMHO, our nation has far more important issues to resolve.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
I am pretty sure the phrase isn't unconstitutional.
1. The Constitution gives Congress the right to coin money and determine the alloy/weight.
2. Federal Reserve Notes are IOU issued by a bank that is for all practical reasons owned by the U.S. Government (Profits go to the U.S Treasury and the leadership is appointed by the President and confirmed by Congress.
Therefore an act of Congress could put any phrase on the coins (power to coin money). The IOUs issued by the Federal Reserve bank are just that IOUs. You can write anything on any IOUs you issue too just so you agree to the amount of repayment and authorize it (Fed Notes do this). The placement of the phrase doesn't make it a national religion or force that religion on anyone. Just like having a President on the coins doesn't make you think that President was a good President. There is no law saying you must take U.S. money for anything over than public and private debts (Coinage Act of 1965). You are free to demand gold, silver, or whatever w/o the phrase for anything you sell. The purchaser might refuse and go to someone else though. You take U.S. currency under you own free will.
All of this said. The coins have it, so the people sending the emails are stupid.
-SFWUSC
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6326 Posts |
The only way it will change will be when/if Christianity and their influence groups begin to fade away.....Liberalism has a slight majority in recent years, but like it or not, faith and faith groups will be strong and powerful in politics and communities for quite some time. Once the majority of the country decides to change this and use the reason for not celebrating/respecting ALL religions.....therefore emblazoning NONE on our currency, our politics (meaning photo-ops, support, influence, and money).....then it will be done. Now many millions see it as our "founding religion" and when the Pilgrims first came over fleeing religous persecution (hypocritical or not!)... We, as a country, have been seriously evolving to the more Liberal view or direction anyway on so many things.... with that argument about removing The Ten Commandments posted in courtrooms and on pillars on city properties, (they're now gone)etc..etc...to prayer in schools, Gay Marriage now legal and much more widely accepted, to taking God out of the Pledge of Allegiance, to even saying it at all, disallowing things that used to be considered normal and American way of life, to Creationism vs. Evolution being taught or not taught, just simply the Country becoming more diverse instead of the old "Leave it to Beaver" days or the "Andy Griffith Show".......all of these arguments and opinions and changes really just show an evolving trend in that direction.......maybe not in our lifetime....but maybe so too......interesting to observe the journey though !........ The Country's political directions and human issues will eventually reflect the wishes of the masses, but politics doesn't necessarily follow very timely or closely...it takes time...majority rules.....but when it's 51% to 49% for the forseeable future......no changes will be "sudden" !
Edited by eaglefoot 06/03/2008 4:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
Quote: IMHO, our nation has far more important issues to resolve. Indeed Quote: All of this said. The coins have it, so the people sending the emails are stupid. Well.. maybe uninformed (and unaware of the avenues of alleviating that) would be a better definition. Those who send those emails just aren't aware of ways to check these kinds of statements; whether it's snopes.com or going directly to the mint web address, they just blindly forward these mails thinking they are helping by informing their friends. They just need a little (gentle) education on fact-checking. (Just quickly, I really don't enjoy the edge lettering, aesthetically speaking. It's just not as pretty as when it's on either coin face.) Of course, there are those who are told where to check and still insist on looking like fools on their next "FWD: Bill Gates to award ONE MILLION DOLLARS to everyone who directly emails him! PER EMAIL!". And those are the ones I cherrypick from  (ow! OW! Mom, I'm just kidding!!)
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Valued Member
United States
245 Posts |
ohh H E double hockey sticks!! Now I gotta check FACTS TOO? 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
 LOL
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Valued Member
United States
245 Posts |
One of the biggest problems with plain fact checking: VERY rarely do the "fact checkers" investigate the social, political, economic, and (dare I say it?) religous atmosphere involved at the time of the recording of the "facts". I'm sure there are plenty of excercises done all the time where a given "fact" is given, and interpretation would be totaly diferent from one time period to the next, say a "fact" from World War I era or earlier being interpreted in todays environment. Words are words, individuals give them meaning. With that said....I'm off to check more COIN facts!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
True .. and history is always written by the victors. With suitable government cover-ups to skew the facts even more. When I mentioned fact checking, I was more or less constraining that to when we get these emails or when friends/family ask because they heard it somewhere. Of course, the places we reference could also be incorrect, but a little checking + a dash of common sense will (usually) get me the through the day without making me look like a complete moron. I think. Speaking of COIN facts (and reference material containing errors), do we have a running list anywhere of the errors/typos in the Coin World Almanac? I'll start a new topic for that question.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6326 Posts |
My admittedly long winded speech above here, was only intended and related to the theology and thought process behind those who "just simply wouldn't use a coin that didn't have IGWT on it somewhere."........when, of course, it DID have it on the coin....but that wasn't MY point at all. Their ignorance in that is one thing.....but to think about it and address the larger issue of having In God We Trust PERIOD on our currency. My speech was angled for those who want it to STAY on our currency as well as those who want it OFF of our currency..... 
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Moderator
 United States
189010 Posts |
Quote: Well.. maybe uninformed (and unaware of the avenues of alleviating that) would be a better definition. Those who send those emails just aren't aware of ways to check these kinds of statements...  Ignorance is not the same as stupidity!  Quote: Just quickly, I really don't enjoy the edge lettering, aesthetically speaking. It's just not as pretty as when it's on either coin face. I really dislike having the date and mint-mark on the edge! I have not bought an album for the Presidential dollars yet because I cannot decide if I want to collect date and mint for the series. Why have two copies of each President if I cannot see the difference when they are in the album? Of course, that throws into question whether or not to get proofs as well! 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6326 Posts |
Jbuck....... Quote: Why have two copies of each President if I cannot see the difference when they are in the album?  .....That's why I'm only doing two albums...One nice one and one crappy paper folder, both, with uncirculated coins. to mayber later replace with the proofs........ The whole Presidential dollar thing, in any way shape or form, is going to be valued at very little anyway.......so really it's nothing more than a "fun" thing. Someone may come out with a "raised surface pod" album to put them in,..  .. but....it's really not worth it if ya ask me. No matter, I'll keep just keep plugging away putting the best uncirculated Denver mint in my regular albums through the years..... 
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Replies: 65 / Views: 6,853 |