Do You Like Mechanical Double And Why?

There's one MAJOR thing being missed here - calling die chips, die wear, cracks, and Machine Doubling "errors" is a misrepresentation. They are junk, not errors. They are common, not collectible. The more people put these out for sale, the more we prolong the ignorance of the masses. They think these things must have some value if others go to the trouble to list them on ebay. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

If I pulled every example of a coin that didn't strike perfectly out of my searches I would have bags and bags of these things. They are common, they have no value, and the sooner people quit trying to sell them like they are something different and unusual the sooner people can quit wasting their money and move on to something that does have value.

I have always and will always disagree that selling die chips, cracks, and Machine Doubling as "errors" is wrong...and once someone is educated to the fact, if they continue the practice they become shady in my view. It's a simple fact that they are common, they are easy to find, so why would anyone want to pay a premium for them? Because someone is misinforming them that these coins have value...that's just wrong.

The whole reason people "have interest" in these is because they believe people who tell them they are collectible. You're telling people they have value by bothering to tube them and sell them. It's about time people graduated away from the Frank Spadone way of thinking.

Personally, I like FORDs..........

Thank you to the person who gave the description of double die vs Machine Doubling. One thing I was wondering is how a double die becomes a double die?

Yeah...they ARE selling like they have value...because MOST of the people buying AND selling them don't look through coins at the rate people like me do. They don't KNOW, thus they are scamming people, ripping people off, and simply selling stuff they know nothing about.

This goes back to the dealers at the shows selling 1955 cents with VERY common die wear as "double dies" - well, they aren't...and if the people buying them knew so, the dealers wouldn't get a plug nickel for them. Just because you CAN sell worthless coins at value doesn't mean they HAVE that value.

That is an act of criminality for a coin that is worth no more than $2 for a nice red uncirculated coin That is part of the hype that makes people think that it is a minor doubled die or actually has real value. A dealer playing on ignorance does not set the market value, only the value of what an uneducated person would pay If I saw a dealer at a show selling junk like that for inflated prices, he would get an earful from me for being the shyster that he is.

Why would anyone consider something that is part of the normal mintage process(mechanical doubling, Die Deterioration, small cracks, chips etc are all part of the accepted minting process) to actually be worth more?

Coin collecting is a very technical and involved hobby and it can be easy to fool the masses. I would bet that 75% or more of people who call themselves coin collectors do not properly understand the processes for making dies or minting coins. Without that knowledge, you are in a really big dark cave with a tiny flashlight- you can only see what is in front of you and even then you are not quite sure what you are looking at. Chuck(and myself to a lesser extent) fights hard for proper education which is what quite a few people in the hobby need with misinformation and outright lies repeated verbatim throughout the years. Just because 20 people tell you the same thing, it does not make them right.

As coffeegod said the original post mainly wanted to know how many like Mechanical Double and why? In way to many posts people just want to know the basics, not the values. Regardless I've just got to go along with coffeegod. What some people think is junk, others find this is what they wanted for a long time. At a local flea market there is a person I know that sells only items he finds in the garbage. I mean the stuff people throw out. And he does sell this so called garbage. If you watch the Antique Road Show you would see so many times people with items worth a lot of money they found in the garbage as JUNK.

Coppercoins I know it irritates you no end about such things as minor perfections in coins. I've also heard you mention how little money there is in your position. Maybe if you'ld join the people that want to buy JUNK as a error or maybe just a novelty, you too could make a lot of money. Like I've said at coin shows such items as you describe as JUNK does sell. ebay has the audience of millions and millions and if those millions want minor error coins, then they will buy them regardless of anyone stating they are JUMK or not.

As Biokemist6 stated it is not the dealers that make the prices. In reality to a degree it is. If numerous dealers all want $5 for a very slight offset, then many people think that is what it is worth. majority rules.
As a coin collector of well over 60 years I have put back into circulation many, many coins that today I see selling at coin shows.

At one time an Edsel Auto was a joke. Today an Edsel Convertible sells for about $100,000. Nice joke.
OH, one more thing coffeegod, I don't like Fords. I'm a Mopar person.

Okay, so the thread did get a little hijacked. I was in no way responding to the original poster of the thread. I was replying to one person's comments about selling Machine Doubling by the roll at a premium...I saw red. It's easy to do when I see myself as an educator trying to tell people day and night not to buy the junk, find it in your change - it's easy. BUY the stuff you don't see every day. Buy the good stuff and leave the other stuff to the weekend roll searches.

Like I said before, I never called anyone out for collecting Machine Doubling. I call them out for selling it like it has some market value. It DOES NOT...simply put. Anyone who charges over normal value for a coin just because it has Machine Doubling is misrepresenting what they are selling. Point blank, end of story. Whether intended or not, it is misrepresentation and SHOULD BE STOPPED.

See me as being arrogant if you like. I'm trying to teach people and save them from making mistakes. Sorry if that's arrogance. Meanwhile we have people right here on this board fighting against ME for teaching people that collecting true errors and varieties has merit...they have value...they are scarce. Collecting little die chips and Machine Doubling, while it may rock the boat for some people, does NOT have VALUE just because someone sells them to someone else who doesn't know what they are buying.

COUNTLESS times people....countless....I have seen little old ladies and kids selling their dead loved-one's collections thinking they were going to be able to pay for the funeral with the collection - just to find out their dead relative saved clad Kennedy half dollars and buckets of circulated wheat cents. The dead one never got the education they needed to make wise choices and buy the right stuff that actually WOULD have a chance of gaining value.

I have seen binder after binder after binder full of crap...die chips, die cracks, Machine Doubling and other worthless stuff with thousand dollar price tags on the holders. And it simply breaks my heart to see someone who never cared about coins to try cashing in on the "valuable collection" just to get $50 for it. It's a simple two-headed point...

1. People NEED to either work toward collecting coins with value, or at least tell the family they'll never get over face for it. DO NOT die and leave your family thinking your books full of die cracks are going to bring them anything over face value....because they WON'T, and all you're going to do is leave heirs scratching their heads wondering why you wasted your life away on nothing.

2. If you want to collect the stuff worth money and simply don't have the money to start off with the 1955 doubled die, DO NOT buy a 1955 cent with Die Deterioration and put it in your collection and consider it done. Work toward it. Work for a nice collection. The challenge and the time it takes is half the fun. QUIT saving stupid little common machine doubled slugs because they "substitute" for the more valuable doubled dies. GET OUT THERE AND LOOK FOR THEM! I started this when I was 11 years old. I found my first doubled die when I was that age - a 1939 nickel DDR. I knew right away when I saw it that it was something special. I learned at the age of 11-12 what a doubled die was, and what the other non-collectible doubling was. It's not that hard, people...I could tell the difference at 12! I have since searched through over a million coins, and have about a thousand different 'keepers' to speak for it. Yeah, about one in a thousand coins is worth keeping...the rest are JUNK! I now have a collection worth around $100K, most of which I FOUND. I have never been rich, I've always been dirt poor. Until this year I NEVER made over $25K per year. I NEVER had a "coin budget" - I scratches through pocket change for 30 years, bought left-over wheat bags, bought $1-$2 BU rolls of memorials and built up what I have. It's NOT easy, and NOT going to happen over night.

ANYONE can do it, but NOBODY is going to do it saving die cracks, house fire coins, and corroded cents. You HAVE to learn what's valuable - those are the challenging finds. The non-valuable stuff is not challenging to find - at all. That's why it has no value. And believe me...when you find that challenging coin--when you finally hit the jackpot, the euphoria is worth it. I have stories, just ask about them.

Look...I'm not here to police what people are collecting...but if you're into collecting machine doubled coins, you are MISSING THE POINT in collecting doubling. I cannot say it any clearer. You really need to either learn what's valuable and start looking for the truly collectible, or at least make sure your family and friends know what you're doing is a waste of time if they plan to pay for your funeral with your coins.

I posted and then I deleted it. same territory different day.