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New Bipartisan Bill Would Let The US Mint Alter The Metal Content Of Coins To Save Money

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n9jig's Avatar
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 Posted 04/23/2023  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add n9jig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They are probably going to spend $250 million to save 12. At this point what difference does it matter? Coins will be obsolete before they figure out a compromise to make any changes.

What they should do:
Get rid of the penny, nickel and quarter, change the dime, half and dollar to plated steel and reduce the size/weight of the half and dollar coins. The half can be slightly smaller than the current quarter and the dollar slightly larger. Each of the 3 remaining coins can have different edges (Plain, reeded, scalloped) Then eliminate the $1 and $2 bills.

As for designs make half the dimes Lincoln and the other half Roosevelt, half the halves Kennedy and the other half Jefferson. Make half the dollar coins with Washington and the other half with the Native American program, the Washington's can continue to have the changing reverse designs. They could do it by mint marks, in even years the Philly designs are Roosevelt, Kennedy and Washington with Denver Lincoln, Jefferson and N.A. with SF making Mint and Proofs with both designs.

Instead of kow-towing to the coin machine lobby just let them know what is going to happen and let them adapt.

We can round off purchases to the nearest dime for the ever decreasing cash purchases.

What is really going to happen:
They are going to spend a quarter billion dollars to determine that 80/20 is the way to go to save a few million and continue to waste resources on unnecessary pennies and nickels. By the time any changes are made it really won't matter.

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ijn1944's Avatar
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 Posted 04/23/2023  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And not too far off, bartering will be the way forward--chickens, potatoes, ducks, soap, alcohol, etc.
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 Posted 04/24/2023  03:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add boris to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silly article by "yahoo". Notice how many times saving taxpayers money is mentioned. Really? Our taxes don't come close to paying for anything but interest on loaned FRN's. The FR Dollar is dying due to crime and fraud - protect yourself... and hopefully America will be restored and coinage will go back to being worth something. CBDC yeah okay. Think about that - not yours. Coin Collectors appreciate the real value if commodities I know. A gimmik is just that, real is real hence BRICS denouncing the FRN.
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 Posted 04/24/2023  03:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add boris to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Federal Reserve needs to be eliminated and America's Coinage needs to be minted according to our constitution. That is gold and silver. Reducing the value of metal in coinage is just kicking the can down the road so my daughter can suffer the consequences instead of me. I want the FR to die on my watch and I am not alone.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 04/24/2023  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
... Coinage needs to be minted according to our constitution. That is gold and silver.
That is never going to happen.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 04/27/2023  12:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
During the past two years, the Mint has continued research and development of alternative metals for modernizing coins and improving general production.

And they did that study for two years before that, and for two years before that etc. Thase two years studies have been going on for over 10 years now.


Quote:
At this time, the Mint has identified one solution that could be ready to implement approximately one year after an authorization by Congress, as well as a few other compositions that future testing may determine to yield even more cost savings.The alternative 80/20 cupronickel has completed testing and is ready to be authorized for production.

Yes they came up withthat 80/20 composition about 6 years ago. At the time it would have allowed them to make the nickel for less than face value.....4.99 cents apiece. The cost of nickel as gone up since then so it no longer eliminates negative seigniorage. Using it for the dime, quarter, and half would actually increase their costs of production unless it was just use for the cladding layers. And just using it to change the cladding layers would result in a minuscule cost reduction on coins that already have large positive seigniorage.


Quote:
If this alternative metal had been available for production in 2022, the Mint estimates that it could have increased seigniorage by an estimated $12 million.

Eliminating the cent would increase seinorage by $68 million.


Quote:
The Mint has also continued to research alternatives to the copper-plated penny.

But considering the manufacturing costs, not including the materials, is 1.1 cents apiece there is no material that will result in a negative seigniorage. The cent can not be made at a profit. Its elimination should be SERIOUSLY considered.


Quote:
the current penny composition has only one identified supplier capable of providing planchets for production. Having a single supplier is a significant risk,

Another good argument for the elimination of the cent.


Quote:
When changing the metals composition, they will need to make sure that the weight of each does not change

You can't change the size (diameter) or thickness either And since most machines today also use electromagnetic signatures as well you have to make sure that doesn't change either.
Edited by Conder101
04/27/2023 01:01 am
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 04/27/2023  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Eliminate the cent, nickel and dime! SIMPLE!
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BadThad's Avatar
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 Posted 04/27/2023  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But considering the manufacturing costs, not including the materials, is 1.1 cents apiece there is no material that will result in a negative seigniorage. The cent can not be made at a profit. Its elimination should be SERIOUSLY considered.


And let us not forget the millions of gallons of diesel burnt hauling around the essentially worthless slugs and - not to mention pollution. The ultimate cost from mint to consumer hands brings the cost MUCH higher in terms of handling, transport and the environment.

What amazes me is the left is not screaming to get rid of small coins. Instead they make the false claim that "it will hurt the poor". And the right wants to keep coinage around to support their buddies in business. Government sucks, best to live in the woods somewhere and ignore the noise. LOL
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Cointree's Avatar
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 Posted 04/28/2023  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cointree to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Get rid of the penny, nickel and quarter, change the dime, half and dollar to plated steel and reduce the size/weight of the half and dollar coins.

I like that idea. Or drop the plating and just use a cheap metal/alloy that won't rust or corrode.
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 Posted 04/28/2023  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to round any total over $1 to the nearest quarter, except rounding is mucked up by arcane state laws. For example, New Jersey requires sellers to round to the nearest cent when calculating sales tax, per their site https://www.state.nj.us/treasury/ta...thetax.shtml It seems reasonable to me for a seller to round and pay any sales tax difference out of his pocket, except you know someone will challenge that in court, and the outdated laws will support them.
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 Posted 04/28/2023  2:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HondoB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I shudder to think of them inflicting something more abysmal than the zincoln on us. I'll stop using cash entirely at that point.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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datadragon's Avatar
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 Posted 04/28/2023  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did you get a chance to read the prior summary I put earlier in the thread that one of the potential metallic alternatives is ready for implementation just pending congressional authorization to do so? To add some more info not in there, the alternative is referenced as 80/20. The alternative is a seamless variant to the present 75 percent copper, 25 percent nickel alloy used for the 5-cent coin and as the cladding for the dime, quarter dollar, and the Kennedy half dollar, but the 80/20 uses more copper, less nickel and adds manganese. The 80/20 composition is actually 77 percent copper, 20 percent nickel and 3 percent manganese from what I read as some might want to know. Seamless means substitutions that would require little or no modification to coin-accepting equipment. So hope that is helpful info.

And unfortunately they found nothing apparently that would lower the cost of the cent. @Hondo, U.S. Mint researchers identified a copper-plated steel cent as an alternative to the copper-plated zinc cent. The option would be seamless, with the same dimensions and weight as the current cent, but a different electromagnetic signature

Another wildcard is that EU tags copper and nickel as strategic metals and pushing for zinc. The Critical Raw Materials Act (CRMA) unveiled by the European Union adds the two major industrial metals to a list that had previously focused on more niche minerals such as cobalt, lithium and rare earths. Copper is used in renewable energy systems and for wiring in electric vehicles (EVs) while nickel is a major component in many EV batteries. https://www.mining.com/web/eu-tags-...-wants-more/ and https://copperalliance.org/wp-conte...ials-Act.pdf
Edited by datadragon
04/28/2023 3:31 pm
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 Posted 04/28/2023  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good discussion, datadragon.
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 Posted 04/28/2023  4:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
that 80/20 seems like a lot of fuss for such a small change in copper and nickel percentages

re changing the cent's core to steel, are there machines other than Coinstar and bank coin counters that still accept cents? heck, even those penny gumball machines disappeared decades ago
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