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 Replies: 75 / Views: 4,999 |
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Moderator
 United States
188560 Posts |
I was under the impression they can sell the year's releases past Del 31, they just cannot mint them past Dec 31.  I have bought a few things in the past after their release year. The Innovation dollar proof sets come to mind—I bought most of them a year or more after they were released. The T. Roosevelt C&C set was another one I bought the following year. Of course, neither of those are commemorative coins, so they could have their own rule. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12835 Posts |
Things may have changed but I do recall receiving notification from the Mint in the past that commemoratives would be going off sale at the end of the year - act fast! Guessing it has/had something to do with the wording of the legislation.
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Moderator
United States
188560 Posts |
That makes sense. I just checked the Mint site. Plenty of old product for sale in different categories, but for commemorative coins there is only 2024.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12835 Posts |
There were no commemorative bills that made it through for 2023, but if you go back to 2022 you can still see the product pages for the Negro Leagues Baseball and Purple Heart commemoratives.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
CelticKnot said earlier in the thread Quote:
Once upon a time the mint had a matrix for gold prices that went up AND down with the spot price of gold. I'm not sure if that still exists; This thread really isn't about the Mint's gold products pricing, but for those interested the 2024 Pricing of Numismatic Gold, Commemorative Gold, Platinum, and Palladium Products can be found by going to the Mint's website, FAQs section, How do you price your products topic- "We use our pricing range table the week prior to sale in order to determine the product's price." The pricing table changes every year, but can always be found by navigating the Mint's website. More on topic ... Here are some other quotes from that page that would apply to silver product pricing Quote:
The United States Mint works on a cost-recovery basis. We cannot use any tax dollars to fund our numismatic operations. Our goal is to provide the best quality numismatic products while keeping prices as low as practicable. Quote:
Our prices must be self-sufficient and cover all of the associated costs of our numismatic portfolio, plus enough margin to cushion against volatility. and Quote:
To calculate margin, we ask ourselves questions like:
Are the proposed prices of this product consistent with similar products we offer of this type?
Will the customer perceive this as a good value?
Are we reaching as many customers as we can should we sell at this price?
If we do not sell all of a specific product, is there enough budgeted for proper disposition (e.g., recovery, melting, recycling)? The questions "they" ask themselves seem to me to be focused on "What price will the market bear?" versus volatility of costs  Also, I believe that the Mint looks at price recovery as a whole and not on a product-by-product basis. So, they probably lose money on some less popular products and then make up those losses by making money on more popular products resulting in these types of price increases. Edited by BadDog
07/06/2024 08:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Quote:
Things may have changed but I do recall receiving notification from the Mint in the past that commemoratives would be going off sale at the end of the year - act fast! Guessing it has/had something to do with the wording of the legislation. Modern commemorative coin legislation has a section concerning when the coins can be issued. Here's the section from this year's Harriet Tubman coins Quote:
PERIOD FOR ISSUANCE. - The Secretary may issue coins minted under this Act only during the 1-year period beginning on January 1, 2024. It's this language that sets the cutoff for selling commemoratives to no later than Dec 31st each year. In practice, the Mint usually cuts off the sales earlier than that, typically without warning. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12835 Posts |
I received an email from the Mint 3 days ago reminding me to shop for Harriet Tubman commemorative coins and that they are "only available this year".
The proofs are uncirculated are currently $87 and $82 respectively. I don't know if that's inclusive of the price increase.
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Moderator
United States
188560 Posts |
Quote:
but if you go back to 2022 you can still see the product pages for the Negro Leagues Baseball and Purple Heart commemoratives. Sure, the pages seem to stick around for a long time, but you cannot add them to your bag (Sold Out). We were talking about buying. For example... https://catalog.usmint.gov/american...et-22GA.htmlQuote:
Modern commemorative coin legislation has a section concerning when the coins can be issued. Here's the section from this year's Harriet Tubman coins Ah, there it is. Thank you.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12835 Posts |
Quote:Sure, the pages seem to stick around for a long time, but you cannot add them to your bag (Sold Out). We were talking about buying. For example... https://catalog.usmint.gov/american...et-22GA.html I only said commemoratives have limited sales windows. As alluded to above, I'm sure the Harriet Tubmans will show "sold out" as well near the end of December '24. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Taking a look at prices from 2017 to today - CPI: 235.900 in Dec 2017 to 308.163 in May 2024 - +3.9%/year Clad Prf Set: $26.95 in 2017 to $35.00 in 2024 - +3.8%/year Silver Prf Set: $47.95 in 2017 to $150 now - +17.7%/year Silver Spot: $16.93 on 12/29/2017 to $30.85 on 7/8/2024 - +9.6%/year The US Mint increased the price of the clad proof set in line with inflation but increased the price of the silver proof set by 4.2% more per year than inflation + silver increase (13.5%). So, is the Mint is saying that their "cost recovery" on the silver proof sets was more than 4% greater than the "cost recovery" of the clad proof sets once the increase in silver price is accounted for. Or did they just increase the price of the "premium" silver proof set by more than their costs to make up for losses elsewhere?  |
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Moderator
United States
188560 Posts |
Quote:
I only said commemoratives have limited sales windows. As alluded to above, I'm sure the Harriet Tubmans will show "sold out" as well near the end of December '24. I think I understand now. Sorry I got us sideways here.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12835 Posts |
Quote:I think I understand now. Sorry I got us sideways here. Meh, I helped with the derailing More on-topic, I will respond to BadDog below: Quote:
So, is the Mint is saying that their "cost recovery" on the silver proof sets was more than 4% greater than the "cost recovery" of the clad proof sets once the increase in silver price is accounted for. Or did they just increase the price of the "premium" silver proof set by more than their costs to make up for losses elsewhere? Gotta recoup the losses from continuing to make cents and nickels from somewhere. A couple of the price increases over the past few years have been drastic for the SPS. 2021 was a particularly painful one; I nearly quit the program on that one. As of 2023 I dropped to 1 set on subscription and the jury is out on whether I decide to pay $150 next year to stay current. 2013: $67.95 (In early 2013 silver was around $30.50, not far from what it is now, but began to drop). 2014: $48.55 (silver started the year around $20-22 and dropped steadily over the next couple years) 2015: $53.95 (silver was tanking yet there was a price increase) 2016: $52.95 (yes, decreases are possible...) 2017: $47.95 (silver was on the rise, interesting that they decreased the price again, by almost 10%) 2018: $47.95 (silver was in the low $14s towards the end of the year) 2019: $54.95 2020: $63.25 2021: $105.00 +66.6%2022: $105.00 2023: $130.00 +23.8%2024: $130.00/$150.00 +15.4% Crazy that in 10 years the price for a set will have gone up over $100. Some will say it's just keeping stride with spot price, but given the combined history of spot price and sales price over the past 10+ years (see BadDog's and my data above), there has to be more to it than that. I'm sure futures have something to do with it as well as other production and operational costs increasing across the board. However I don't believe the average coin collector's income is increasing at the same rate as these silver products. Something's gotta give. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Quote:
2017: $47.95 (silver was on the rise, interesting that they decreased the price again, by almost 10%) 2016 was the last year the sets included Presidential dollars (3). I always thought that the $5 price decrease in 2017 accounted for the decrease in value, packaging and labor costs associated with the Presidential dollars ending.  That 2021 price increase was huge, but it barely affected sales. In 2020 sales were a little over 313K and in 2021 they were a little over 302K. ...but, the over 100% increase from 2020 to 2023 may be having an affect. The last sales figures for the 2023 set (it's still available) were 193,680 and that's nearly -40% from the 2020 sales figure. Now, with the additional 15% increase, I do expect sales will decrease even more when compared to sales before the huge price increases began. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12835 Posts |
Quote:2016 was the last year the sets included Presidential dollars (3). I always thought that the $5 price decrease in 2017 accounted for the decrease in value, packaging and labor costs associated with the Presidential dollars ending. Very good point -- I had forgotten about that! |
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Moderator
United States
188560 Posts |
Quote:Gotta recoup the losses from continuing to make cents and nickels from somewhere. QFT.  Quote:2016 was the last year the sets included Presidential dollars (3). I always thought that the $5 price decrease in 2017 accounted for the decrease in value, packaging and labor costs associated with the Presidential dollars ending. This. One less lens in the set. |
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Posted 07/05/2024 4:22 pm
