How Many VAMs Are There?

I think in these times, where the digital imaging will take the hobby beyond the perceptions of "only one source" for interpretation as it has been in the past...where the age of "the die is the die" the PROOF is permanently in the pudding for all to see, and non can dispute....Even as we speak there are some major reworking of the vamming structure, perhaps this is just the begging...time will tell..

The digital imaging thing sounds like a step in the right direction, but I really don't see it changing much in the control of things. Will this anticipated breakthrough be able to distinguish die pairs that are currently indistinguishable? I think not. These dies were made from molds (working hubs), and as such, there could well be many dies that are in essence, identical to several other dies.

I, the eternal pessimist, will not get my hopes up.

Personally, I see this "addiction' as an on going adventure, I appreciate finding a Early Die State coin and following the progressive die cracks turn into a more pronounced die break and note the available literature does not list the findings, only to locate the findings somewhere else.EEEERRRRRGGGG!

I love the Morgan/Peace Dollar hunt, for any anomalies (Vams) for the simple fact I know I am addicted, compared to years gone by, this addiction is healtheir, however my knowledge base is stronger and getting better by the practice and time and patience I give to this portion of my collecting passion. My eyes will never be the same, looking into the stereo- microscope for what seems to be just tooooo many hours. Blinding fast, but enjoying it at the same time, I know Vammers understand this comment, good luck in "the hunt"....

I would also like to point out, the previously discussed rarity factor, I believe many people are producing these factors for the profitability, being their agendas are motivated by "Dead Presidents"( $$$$$$ ) and to put the word out about a certain coins availability being "rare or the rarity factor is promoted as being out of the realms of THE TRUTH".
Keep in mind things like the Marketing deception involved in the distribution in the "Redfield Hoard", as a "condition" of distributing the coins by the selected few, they were instructed and made to follow the condition of NOT letting to many coins out in a short period of time as not to place the collecting public in a frenzy and there was always the "rarity" of certain coins, that if a bag or two were to be announced and sold to the public, imagine the impact that would of had on the people who spent hundreds of dollars on say a Morgan silver dollar that had a R-6 value, and then the 2-bags were placed up for sale, NOT fair.......But true........PS, I also believe just because the available knowledge states xxxxx amount of these coins are "known" does NOT in any way have a reality bearing on what people have hoarded,or what people do not even have a clue about what they have!I love this addiction.......

I think that you probably refer to the wreck of the SS Central America in 1857 in which upwards of 5500 1857-S double eagles were recovered.




I don't read VW posts, but this does sound interesting.....I imagine that it has already been determined that this lower hair doubling is either working hub related, or is die specific and variable between these five dies?

Interesting to me that although Morgans and Peace are not unique in that they were created from dies, that relatively little attention has been paid to many other types of coins. How many LHC dies were used between 1909 and present for instance? The 1955 DD is the only one that anyone even speaks of. IHC, large fillet head cents and CBH have been pretty well cataloged, but what about Trade dollar varieties or 2 cent coppers? Nobody has even lit the torch on these as far as I know.

I would think that being the pioneer, the person to name the rules of the game, might well be a golden financial opportunity for someone.
Die varieties of the reeded edge CBH was attempted a couple of decades back, but the torch was dropped and the varieties that were identified back then are virtually unknown today. I had considered picking up said torch as there are a few varieties that were not identified earlier, I had quite a collection of these coins, and intended to write about them, but lost interest overnight, as profits are not on my agenda.

Lettered edge CBH, although extensively researched and rarity factors updated regularly, has its own problems in that the coins are often very heavily adorned with press related anomalies, and these obvious pups are not only noted in the CBH bible, but cause is also given (which is quite wrong in some instances). I do enjoy personal satisfaction in bringing to light the true causes of some of these odd looking marks on certain die varieties. Acceptance of new theories (based on possibilities versus impossibilities) is far better received in the world of CBH than it is for vams. Closed mindedness is a hallmark of the vamming community, based on what is thought to be known of other denominations, and as such, are determined to be common denominators.

Yup, yup, and yup. ()

It takes a peculiar kind of person to get this done, Dad. I freely admit my own attention span is too close to that of a fruit fly for me to ever be a factor in the "research" effort, which is why I've chosen the "proselytize" category for my contribution. My contention is, there are enough out there who *do* have the chops for successful research, and they will eventually win out because everything they build does not disappear.

It's a cumulative program. A grain is added every day, and the day will come when those grains add up to an immovable weight.

All you and I have to do is keep talking about it.

And has your contribution born fruit yet, or simply notions of futility Dave? Maybe it is all in the technique....the delivery? If I could master that aspect of your approach, I too may bear fruit as opposed to frustration.




That is one rational way to look at it Dave, and while I see it in the same terms, I view it all from a singular vector.

If the lone apple in bottom of the barrel is rotten, it must be 'removed' and replaced with a good one prior to dumping more apples on top of it.

Does all of these petty points that I try to make really make any difference? What is the cause of the "ovaloid" for instance....does it make any difference at all? Not really, not by itself. Who cares anyway?

I do, because I do believe that relativity plays an important role in the grand design of all things. If creation of the die is misunderstood, the entire basis for future additions of 'information' is flawed, and subsequent findings may come at great time and expense and may not even coincide with that which is already known (perceived as knowledge).

The entire mentality of vamming seems to begin at the end and look backward at the beginning. I would look first at the press and the dies, the process of minting.....get a general understanding of what is possible and what is not........and 'then' look at the coins. This is not the way of things for most folks however, we tend to look at the coins first, and really have little idea of what we are looking at, and are relegated to making rash claims without basis as to cause. That is why (I think) that I butt heads so often with the 'experts'.

Back to your quote though;

"A grain is added every day, and the day will come when those grains add up to an immovable weight."

Yes, the day has come, but not in a positive way I fear.....too many grains piled upon myths. Immovable, and impenetrable.

The fact that research is being centered on an entire date in totality is helping to shape the hobby more true to its roots. That study of the dies and die marriages is already bearing fruit and many VAM listings will be delisted as they are proven to be the same die. Some listings will remain although certain data attributed to them will be shifted else where.

Knowledge is dynamic. This would be a good topic to look at five years from now.