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 Replies: 141 / Views: 11,525 |
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Moderator
 United States
188535 Posts |
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Do I get record for longest post TL;DR.  (just kidding) Quote:
I am not exactly sympathetic to the idea that the government choosing a more cost-effective form of circulating currency is some kind of tyranny. Well said. The government makes the money, so it should try to be cost effective and efficient; even if it means polymer notes (which have the same lobbied political opposition that the coins do). No need for me to say anything else, you two are doing a good job. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
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I am not exactly sympathetic to the idea that the government choosing a more cost-effective form of circulating currency is some kind of tyranny. When coercion is tyranny is when there are alternative methods of solving the same problem that might save just as much money, are favored by the majority of the people, and are ignored by the officials who solicited votes from those same people by promising to represent them. Can you imagine? Vote for me - I will force you to do things you do not want when legitimate options are available.  Quote:
which have the same lobbied political opposition that the coins do Agreed - none of this is a real situation anyway is it? The bureaucracy is going to have its way until the country is dead. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1007 Posts |
I don't understand this reasoning behind people saying the government "forcing" anyone to use dollar coins if $1 banknotes aren't produced anymore. No one will be "forcing" anyone to use $1 coins. Just don't use them if you don't like them. Use $5 bills and $10 bills. I guess the government is forcing you to use metal disks for nickels, dimes and quarters too. How about just bartering at the supermarket for that loaf of bread and half gallon of milk? Carrying around twenty individual one dollar bills makes your wallet very fat. I can't remember when I've had twenty one dollar bills at one time. It's fear of change (and I'm not talking fear of coins when I mean change). That's also what's keeping the USA from adopting the Metric system like the rest of the world uses. Don't worry, it'll be okay.... It's just something you will get used to if the Feds decide not to produce the one dollar bill anymore. They did away with the Two Cent coin and the Three Cent coin. Was that tyranny too? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
Polymer notes would require all new minting infrastructure. We already have everything we need to mint all the dollar coins we need. Also, coins have other advantages besides cost and durability for small denominations, like vending machines.
There are also problems with accumulation of plastics in the environment. And since the polymers would be a petroleum product, I'd have to see a comparison of their oil consumption relative to the production of coins.
Edited by CaptainFwiffo
02/16/2012 7:34 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
OK - lets not use the term "force" then so we do not get hung up on intricacies of semantics. Let's be more politically correct The issue is that the deliberate removal of bills and removing the preference of the people - when there is a viable option - is a major problem. If there was no viable option, then there is no argument. What is it behind this motivation to eliminate what Americans have overwhelmingly said they prefer when the cost argument can be eliminated? Please address this and you will most likely find the truth behind the issue... Again, though, the issue is skipped over. I hope not to offend, but I keep seeing the main idea here being ignored - why not use the option that saves money and the majority of the people would like it? in a debate, whenever a main point is brought up but continually goes unanswered it is a sure bet that the crux of the problem lies in the emotional desires, rather than logical thinking, of those opposed to the idea. To to make sure no one takes personal offense, I know at times I have also been guilty of this. It boils down to this: If there is a logical answer as to why not use a cost effective method that pleases the majority of Americans - why not use it instead of using a cost effective method that the majority of people have shown they do not want? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1007 Posts |
Earle, from reading your posts I sense your fear and paranoia of the government. Just the mention of the feds stopping production of the $1 banknote and switching to coins, you've used the terms "being forced", "sheeple" and "having "Big Brother" push us around". That's nonsense. No one is forcing you do use anything. If you refuse to carry around twenty $1 coins, then don't.
If polymer notes were substituted there would be those fearful of losing traditional banknotes and cries of tyranny would be heard again.
Because you heard someone dislike the loonies and toonies doesn't mean everyone dislikes them.
And it will eventually happen. Coins will eventually replace the paper dollar bill and it's about time it does. Turning it into a political statement won't change anything.
Edited by matchbox
02/16/2012 8:05 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
Matchbox, you are very close to an ad hominem type of response which is always indicative the person using this approach is faltering in being able to provide legitimate/factual answers. The person is trying to find an "out" so they need not confront the issue head on. Thus the main focus of their discussion becomes the supposed motives of the other person they are talking with. You also have repeated issues which I already dealt with before. please re-read to see what you must have missed or I did not make understandable. If you really want to get off topic and discuss my motivations behind this and my feelings of government and the people etc - fine - but this is not the focus of this thread. And the main question I have been asking, and have been waiting for someone to answer, is still not being addressed. So lets return to the subject at hand... Why, if there is an answer that will please the majority of the people (desire to have $ bills and not $ coins) and be cost effective, would anyone want the government to ignore the opinions/wishes of the majority of the people and impose a minority's wishes on everyone? Pictorially - Assuming money is saved in both conditions: Monetary System..............American public ..................................................................... coin only ........................  ..  polymer bills...................  .. ....................................................................... So what really drives a person to want the top scenario? Note the numbers of emoticons are not meant to be an actual, numerical representation of the actual numbers of approval vs disapproval. The fact is a large majority of Americans favor bills (no matter what you and I think of this - it does not alter the issue -- shown true by the piles of the coins unused in storage). Also, there is bound to be some people who would wonder about polymer bills so I added a confused person in the bottom instead of a smiley. Edited by Earle42
02/16/2012 9:34 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
Do we have any evidence to believe polymer bills would be any more accepted by the public than coins? Sure, they sound similar to paper money, but once they get into peoples' hands, will they like them? I remember people complaining as much about the color changes in dollar bills as they did about the coins. There were lots of people moaning about pink fives and orange tens. They didn't have a choice though, and there were sound, practical reasons to make the change, even though it was unpopular, and now nobody cares anymore.
There's also a lot of additional infrastructure required to produce and handle polymer bills. By contrast, we already have everything necessary to produce and use the coins. We've got the presses, the dies, the materials, etc. Vending and coin handling machines already handle the dollar coins. We'd need to set up all the new machinery required for producing polymer bills; it's not just a drop-in replacement for paper. All the bill acceptors and other money handling equipment would need to be replaced or modified to reliably handle the new bills. They'd be more expensive than the current bills to produce, and I don't know if they'd end up being as cost effective as coins, even when you consider their durability advantage over paper bills.
I also have some concerns about the technology. How do they fare when you consider the energy required to produce them, compared to coins? They'd be a petroleum product - how much consumption are we talking about here? There's a big problem right now with accumulations of plastic in the environment - how much would they contribute to that?
Coins are a known quantity. They've been used for thousands of years. All our infrastructure already handles them. We could make the change with little additional investment. We also know from other countries' experience that the change does not cause the sort widespread grief you suggest would happen.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1007 Posts |
Earle, the problem here is not whether or the government should stop printing $1 bills, the problem is your feelings against it. That isn't what the topic is about to begin with. You think the government may do something you don't want it to do and because of this you feel like you're being forced by Big Brother (in your own words). You turned this into a political discussion. And that is an observation, not an "ad hominem" personal attack. Another fact is the company in Massachusetts who produces dollar bills, Crane & Company, has lobbyists in Washington and are against stopping production of the currency, backed by Republican Scott Brown. http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...-dollar-coinThe facts are if the production of the $1 bank note is ended and coins are used, it will eventually save billions of dollars. No one is being forced to do anything. Maybe we should have lobbyists in Washington who are for the production of the $1 coin and the elimination of the $1 banknote. Things would change real fast then. But anyway that's all I care to say on the subject. I don't care for internet drama. Whether you consider it a "way out" or not that's your prerogative. However, you're accusing others for not "addressing the real issue" when you aren't yourself.
Edited by matchbox
02/16/2012 10:16 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
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USA is always the last to do anything. Why is that? Just like ebay.con does stuff after they get the bugs out on ebay.oz and ebaYUK. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I cannot belive the amount of debate and fear being generated by the simple change of removing the dollar note and replacing it with a coin.
In 1966 in Australia we not only removed 1 type of note or coin we changed from the pound,shillings and pence system to decimal system with an entire change of coinage and notes without a major drama or outcry.
We later removed the 1 and 2 dollar notes and used coins instead.
Nobody died as a result and nobody lost any money or sleep over the change.
It just happened.
What is happening in the US over this is just plain stupid and irrational.
If this change can save the US billions of dollars the answer to the debate is so simple DUMP THE NOTE.
A lot of people refer to the "end of the world" situation retaining the dollar note will only accelerate the "end of the world" event (If it indeed occurs)
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
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But what kind of "data" is it to only take into account the current, lacking-personal-experience-of-the-former option, attitudes? Almost everyone alive today lacks personal experience of horses and buggies. Should we miss them? |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
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They already make both and the coins just sit in the FR vaults wasting money.
The number of mini-bux in circulation, about half the total mintage, is more than all the dollar coins made from 1878-1935 combined. Hardly what I'd call a failure. |
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Valued Member
United States
110 Posts |
I really don't see what all the hubbub is about. We are moving toward a cashless society so the problem with coins and dollar bills will eventually take care of itself. With a tank of gas costing $60 and grocery's costing $100's you pay with plastic so you are really only using cash today for incidentals. usually at the minimart.
Everytime I get a wad of dollar bills, which isn't often, I stop at the first minnmart and upgrade to 10's or 20's. As far as coins, the less I have in my pocket the better. Again, they either go into the coin jar or cash them in at the minimart.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
There's a reason we no longer use fractional currency. I took the liberty of compiling a list of countries that switched to a dollar size coin then switched back to paper money: - You didn't really
- expect to find
- anything down here, did you?
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Posted 02/16/2012 6:25 pm
