Obama's 2013 Budget Seeks Increased Flexibility For Coin Com

" Why would you need to carry $20 in dollar coins? Who carries around $20 in one dollar bills?"

I and millions of Americans walk around with 20 or more $1.00 bills in our pockets. I pay everything with cash as well. Do I want to walk around with a light wallet, or a tiny purse to house all my change?

I was in Germany for 7 years (1999-2006) They have 1-2-5 Euros denominations coins. Everyone walks around with little purses. No thanks. The dollar bill is so cheap to make. Why would you end this? do you know how many people around the world would have to turn in their dollar bills in exchange for "coins" which cost way more to make? BUT, on the other hand, it would be extremely difficult for bank robbers to get away with a couple of dollar coin bags...lol

And dollar coins are even cheaper, once you factor in their much greater lifespan and lower replacement rate.

Me? I don't use one dollar bills - I get direct ship rolls of dollar coins to spread around and take the dollar bills back to the bank when I buy boxes for roll hunting.

So you look at ALL the experiences and the conclusion you come to is that though the people will grumble at first they will adapt.



If you do you get what we have today, over a billion coins in storage and the coin doesn't circulate.



So instead you have 10 $2 notes or maybe eight $2 and two dollar coins.



Eliminate the dollar note and they WILL use them.



Amen. A lot of people seem to forget that fact. WE were the ones who started the "replace the note with a small size coin" trend. We took the first step creating the coin but we never took the second step eliminating the note. The rest of the world looked at what WE did, noted the mistakes WE made and then did their own programs which all succeeded. The only place in the world where it failed was right here where it all started.

It is very plausible that if we did away with the dollar bill that people would start using the dollar coin as a substitute. I know that I personally do not like caring anything in my front pockets so I have a mug on my desk at work as well as a jar at home that I throw all loose change into daily, as soon as I get it. I would think that there are many others that do not like to carry around loose change as well. Since we already produce the $2 note wouldn't it be wise to push that more and do away with the $1 note?

In reference to my statement of saying why not just have polymer bills and coins, Conder 101 said:



So... this is an saying you believe if they did make polymer notes (hence the issue of cost-saving by making only coins is not as valid), people would still reject the coins?

So then what is the real reason behind wanting the coins in the first place since it would no longer be to save tax-payer money?

I agree with you. If the polymer notes were made, having long durability, hence the cost of production was saved, people would use the bills instead. But since it would be cost effective, the coin and bills could still be made to satisfy both sets of people - with no waste in production costs - and the dollar units that got stockpiled would be based upon what the American people wanted. Hence pure logic and scientific method could solve the problem! it would erase the need for coercion.

wquinn said:


See above... polymer notes are not being made so the cost-effective argument for making only coins is in place. If there were polymer notes - the cost-effective argument is not so valid.





The link shows what minimalistic money the calculated savings (by switching over) would be compared to the debt and what has been spent. If you see what a million actually is compared to the horrendously large amounts of actual spending/debt, it is easy to realize the time being spent would be better on larger issues.



Although this is true of human nature, it is speculation when applied here. We have no way of proving this. The main problem is that all humans have to fight wanting their own position to be seen as the "right" one. Too often, when a person cannot curb this, it gets in the way and speculation is taken as fact.

I do not doubt that some people do not want it just b/c they do not want to change things. But to say this is the case for "most people" cannot be taken as fact since the re-ocurring theme (whether someone thinks it is valid or not) that keeps coming to the surface when people argue against the coin is that they say they do not want to have pockets of "heavy" change to carry around. Since the negative comments about the coins most often center around the weight issue (carrying pockets of change) means there is a legit (as they see it) concern people have other than just "not wanting" to use the coins. If many different reasons were given which did not tie together in a common theme, then it might be legit to say that most people just did not want to change.



Yes - this is fact - it is recorded in history that it was noy uncommon to hear people yelling "Get a horse" to the first motorists. However, this analogy breaks down when comparing it to theis coin/bill debate since, unlike the curent issue, the first people never say the government as forcing them to use something there was so much obvious opposition to. In other words, the government never forced people to get rid of their horses and use cars.

JSH said:


Anyone who is a vendor at flea markets; schools; fundraisers; innumerable hobby shows; small time classes like ceramics (where you buy the greenware right there); my wife needs them in scrap booking get togethers; people who take part in county fairs; et cetera. Anyplace people will need to make change for 5s and 10s always need more $1.00 bills. being a dealer in another hobby, at the shows I attend, $1.00 bills are never plentiful enough. I would not like to have to have 100 more cumbersome coins instead. I like having a choice, which I currently do, and still could in a cost effective manner, if polymer notes were made.



No... peer pressure is seldom legit excuse for anything in this life. And the usage of statements such as "everyone else has done this" to bolster an opinion has nothing to do with validity or non-validity.
"Well everyone else is sniffing glue..."
"Well everyone else is buying gold..."
"Well everyone else is getting a tatoo..."
"Well everyone else is __________ ..."
So what?

Saying we had a chance to "lead the pack" also comes back to the idea of wanting a universal conformity to an idea deemed positive. The term "lead" is subjective. Leading in what? Citizen dissatisfaction whether seen as legit or not b/c of their education level in the subject?
Personal freedoms of choice were what molded this nation. In our history, people elected officials who they believed would stand up for them. The idea (although sadly true nowadays) of the government forcing a majority of people to go against their will reminds a person of a dictatorship. I *think* this is also why the elimination of the dollar bill and the overall rejection of the dollar coins has been so great (whether or not I personally think the reasoning is valid or not does not matter). The coercion aspect is a driving issue against eliminating the bills.

Step back away from the issue and our own desires. I personally do not want or like using dollar coins, but have been shown that it is actually more cost efficient in the long run (thanks to people like jbuck in different threads). However, there are always other alternatives - one is the polymer note.

I see a scenario where BOTH sides of the issue can be satisfied. So why would the coin-only people favor the government forcing the other people bill-only people to use them since there is a cost effective alternative? I think the problem, and it is obvious when you read threads on this forum, that emotional desires are too deeply entrenched in this.

Methinks too many people want their own way of thinking to be instituted instead of looking for alternatives. We all - myself included - can easily be found in this situation.



Sort of agenda driven... dictate to the people and they will cower.

The scientific method (aka. problem solving) has always been to look at the data and conclusions and find the best fit hypothesis to solve the problem. Looking at the data and conclusions and then forcing a predetermined system does nothing to actually address the needs of the people/problem. At the very least, coercion in this matter (if cost effective bills could be made) would simply be someone ignorantly pushing to get their own way. It would be an outright dictatorial "solution" at the worst. No one likes being forced against their will. America was founded by people seeking to get away from this very idea.

jbuck said:


Two sides to every coin...
IF a polymer note could be made - it erases the cost effective argument. And yet others have stated (see above) that they still should get rid of the bill since the coins would just sit and rot.

Here is the REV...
So we should all use the coins just b/c other people want us to conform to their wishes?

Ouch!

If the cost effective argument is erased for making only coins - then the people who want only coins need to ask themselves what is the real reason behind their desires for this situation are. There may be other legitimate arguments - but I do not know what they are.



Sorry - invalid - as this is an assumption we made a mistake/failed b/c SBAs did not accomplish eliminating the dollar bill. It also makes a very invalid statement in claiming success. We are not "other countries" and overwhelmingly, as Americans, our people have said we do not want the coins. Whether or not you or I like the situation is immaterial to calling it success or failure.

We could say (if it is valid for the time SBAs came out?) that we made a mistake in not saving money by looking onto other alternatives. But to assume the solution other countries (unpopular or not) have implemented have come up with is the only answer is not legitimate and very limiting.
Yankee Ingenuity is a worldwide, well known, and respected term.


wquinn said:


Logical - no - the scientific method dictates otherwise - see above.



This is ironic
Back when the announcement of the Presidential dollar coins being made en masse was announced, the Canadians people and Canadian bankers I regularly talked with (quite a few) were asking why the US was being stupid and not learning from the Canadian mistake of eliminating the dollar bills! They called the Loonie a mistake b/c of exactly what you hear US people saying - too much weight in the pockets, and also the banks hated them b/c it cost so much more for the banks to ship masses of Loonies in to get larger bulls. So the banks would not take masses o Loonies from the people. My friends were always saying they were "stuck" with them and that the little person is always the one who gets stuck. This was long enough ago that time has healed the wounds. But we have an alternative that we can learn from other countries - such as Canada - in making polymer bills. So will we learn? I doubt it.

I personally would listen to experienced people. It is more cost effective to make just coins - but again, there is no legit response to why not just make polymer notes and coins, and see which the people want to use? What's wrong with letting everyone have a choice?

BTW - yes I had all day - and I was using this to help my concentration to ignore another of my frequent headaches

Do I get rocord for longest post

So this is the point where we are crossing wires:


Sorry I have not made it clear that, yes, if they forced them on us, there would be no crisis financially. It would only be a shame to see the will of the common person put aside by something that could be solved through other means.



This is why the polymer note makes more sense - no one is forced to do anything and the money is saved.

So what is it that drives this push for the elimination of the dollar bill if the cost argument is gone?

{quote]The government is also forcing you to use quarters...