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NCLT Coins Are Not Legal Tender, Including The $20 For $20

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Solidifier's Avatar
Canada
814 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2014  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Solidifier to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
^^^^^ I'm pretty sure if you are doing a trade for the owl then no there would not be a limit. Could ask them.
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dialog_gvf's Avatar
Canada
1581 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2014  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dialog_gvf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@SPP: If they had accepted your jacket, would that make jackets legal tender?

I think implicit in the definition of a legal tender transaction is an intended reuse as legal tender. In these cases the acceptor probably put their own $20 in the till pocketing the coin, making the transaction a third-party barter.

i.e. Will you accept this object in exchange for covering my debt to the establishment.

The coin never went into the cash flow of the business.
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arianzo's Avatar
Canada
2124 Posts
 Posted 03/02/2014  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arianzo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 0.50 cents coin is legal tender or not applying the same logic?
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10458 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  08:58 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My jacket does not have "CANADA $20" written on it...

I tried two different merchants and it worked. My friend used a couple to buy pizza and beer at a pub, no questions asked. Even the beer-cart girl took one at the golf course...

It has been used to buy coffee, gas, pizza and beer. How much more reproducibility do you need, to have relevance?
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Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Dcadon's Avatar
Canada
1360 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dcadon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks SPP, I was getting tired of defending this topic. I like your comment.... The jscket does not have CANADA $20 written...
Yes, anything/item/bullion, can be used as trade but are NOT legal tender unless - backed by the bank of Canada, and Issued by the supplier of coin to CANADA - for my LAST time - Legal Tender. Circulating or not, THEY ARE.
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Anjohl's Avatar
Canada
815 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Anjohl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Someone accepting a coin as payment does not make it legal tender. Legal definition makes it legal tender. It's fine that they are becoming more ubiquitous, and I personally love the idea of a silver-backed currency being in circulation again, but anecdotes do not change the definition.
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arianzo's Avatar
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 Posted 03/03/2014  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arianzo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lol.
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Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  2:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About 2 years ago, the TD bank started to charge a 1/4 percent fee on cash deposits into current accounts, wonder if this fee is legal also are nickel dollars NCLT?
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commems's Avatar
United States
12281 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I couldn't stay on the sidelines any longer...


Quote:
Someone accepting a coin as payment does not make it legal tender. Legal definition makes it legal tender.


You're right! So here's the legal text which makes Canada's NCLT coins (the $XX-for-$XX coins as well as others) legal tender.

From Canada's Currency Act:

PART I
CURRENCY AND COINAGE


MONETARY UNIT


Monetary unit

3. (1) The monetary unit of Canada is the dollar.

Denominations

(2) The denominations of money in the currency of Canada are dollars and cents, the cent being one hundredth of a dollar.


CURRENT COINS

Current coins

7. (1) A coin is current for the amount of its denomination in the currency of Canada if it was issued under the authority of
(a) the Royal Canadian Mint Act; or
(b) the Crown in any province of Canada before it became part of Canada and if the coin was, immediately before October 15, 1952, current and legal tender in Canada.

Defaced coins not current

(2) No coin that is bent, mutilated or defaced, or that has been reduced in weight otherwise than by abrasion through ordinary use, shall pass current.


LEGAL TENDER

Legal tender

8. (1) Subject to this section, a tender of payment of money is a legal tender if it is made
(a) in coins that are current under section 7; and
(b) in notes issued by the Bank of Canada pursuant to the Bank of Canada Act intended for circulation in Canada.

Limitation

(2) A payment in coins referred to in subsection (1) is a legal tender for no more than the following amounts for the following denominations of coins:

(a) forty dollars if the denomination is two dollars or greater but does not exceed ten dollars;
(b) twenty-five dollars if the denomination is one dollar;
(c) ten dollars if the denomination is ten cents or greater but less than one dollar;
(d) five dollars if the denomination is five cents; and
(e) twenty-five cents if the denomination is one cent.

Coins of denominations greater than ten dollars

(2.1) In the case of coins of a denomination greater than ten dollars, a payment referred to in subsection (1) may consist of not more than one coin, and the payment is a legal tender for no more than the value of a single coin of that denomination.


And per the Royal Canadian Mint Act referenced above:


NON-CIRCULATION COINS


Issue of coins

6. The Governor in Council may authorize the issue of non-circulation coins of a denomination listed in Part 1 of the schedule.

Characteristics

6.2 The Mint may determine the characteristics, other than the design, of any denomination of a non-circulation coin.

Design
6.3 The Minister may determine the design of any denomination of a non-circulation coin.


Here's the Schedule 1 referred to above:

SCHEDULE
PART 1

NON-CIRCULATION COINS
- Denominations
- One million dollars
- One hundred thousand dollars
- Two thousand five hundred dollars
- Five hundred dollars
- Three hundred and fifty dollars
- Three hundred dollars
- Two hundred and fifty dollars
- Two hundred dollars
- One hundred and seventy-five dollars
- One hundred and fifty dollars
- One hundred and twenty-five dollars
- One hundred dollars
- Seventy-five dollars
- Fifty dollars
- Thirty dollars
- Twenty-five dollars
- Twenty dollars
- Fifteen dollars
- Ten dollars
- Eight dollars
- Five dollars
- Four dollars
- Three dollars
- Two dollars
- One dollar
- Fifty cents
- Twenty-five cents
- Ten cents
- Five cents
- Three Cents
- One cent


So, per the Royal Canadian Mint Act, the RCM is authorized to strike non-circulation coins in a wide range of denominations. Per Canada's Currency Act, all coins issued under the Royal Canadian Mint Act are considered Legal Tender within the limitations specified.

Is that enough legal evidence for folks to agree that Canada's NCLT coins are legal tender - however cumbersome it might be to use them in daily commerce? I hope so!


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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aarf's Avatar
United States
157 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aarf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that commems, it's a keeper.
New Member
Canada
37 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gorebug to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It seems to me this argument is more about fungibility rather than legality.

It seems, from the links and quotes provided, that the 20/4/20 are indeed Legal Tender. Where they fall short, compared to a $20 bill is their fungibility - although SPP has demonstrated that that fear is not as real as some may portend.
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Dcadon's Avatar
Canada
1360 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dcadon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back to you Anjohl. I think evidence enough has been produced here. You'll just have to suck it up and admit you are wrong.
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arianzo's Avatar
Canada
2124 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arianzo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First, the Messiah will come....
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Ravenzcoin's Avatar
Canada
300 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ravenzcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to commems for his most informative post, and to gorebug, as well, for helping to advance my education. I have to confess my ignorance--never heard the word fungibility before, and my spell-checker doesn't like it, but it's clearly a real word. I looked it up on Google and it gave me the definition. Thanks again!
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Dcadon's Avatar
Canada
1360 Posts
 Posted 03/03/2014  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dcadon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that was used quite a bit earlier in the post... I too had to 'look it up'. However, being a real word, and using it in casual conversation, I don't think it'll be taken if not in context. (eg: the gas in the borrowed car example) You would for sure get some strange looks.
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