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Who Is Jose Luis Gonzales Of Numisbarreira@hotmail.com?

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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2012  01:53 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just got my own copy of his catalog of Countermarked coins. What an enlightening catalog.

Wondered if anyone has direct experience with him or his products.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 10/31/2012  06:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jose Luis Gonzales is a name of a collector, used by the guy who wrote that crappy book.
He is a member of the chopmarks collector club (http://www.chopmarks.org/joomla/)
He DID NOT write it, someone used his name ...
We have been discussing that on the FB group, but it's a while ago ... (I'd have to dig in the loooong post list there - you can check it .. I couldn't find it now)
Ralf, do you remember those informations ?
Valued Member
Germany
194 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2012  2:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dosmundos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could not find anybody in Madrid who knows "Numisbarreira" or his business. As I said in another thread here, the name "José Luis Gonzales" is more or less the Spanish equivalent to "John Doe", so little chance finding a serious numismatist under that name...

Mathieu, I guess you are referring to another other "author" of the articles on counterstamped 8 reales posted on the numisma.org homepage - José Antonio de la Fuente Freyre - who seems to be a real person, but I seriously doubt that he is actually the author of these papers.

I very much assume that this is all one big scam to lend credibility to this counterfeiting operation and its products.

Unfortunately, whenever these pieces show up (on ebay, or lately even in an auction of a Spanish auction house, where the lot was later withdrawn), prices reach extremely high levels, so that it is difficult to get an exapmle for closer study...
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2012  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe I actually do have two coins made using stamps in the book. They came in counterfeit batches from a reputable dealer who recognized them. I need to find them for the book anyway so when I do I will post the photos.
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austrokiwi's Avatar
2087 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2012  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
New to the forum I have been catching up on old threads. I actually purchased this book myself sometime ago. My interest in the book was due to my focus on collecting Maria theresa Thalers. As you well know Counter-stamped MTT pull in big prices. My problem with the counter-stamped MTTs is that 80% of the counter-stamped MTT for sale that I have examined are fake....identified not by the counter-stamp but by the fact the base coin was struck much later than the period the counter stamp is attributed to. I have even identified the fact to the auction houses who politely ignore my comments and go on to get €500-€2000 for these travesties. I had some communication with Steven Album who ventured the opinion( in the case of MTTs) that these counter-stamps were produced in the yemen when US OIl workers were based there 1950s-60s. Paul Bosco, in his auction catalogue for the Hal Wallis collection of World Trade coins(August 4 1997)States in a couple of places: "Can any one speak for Tim Browder, who has been mentioned in connection with some of these coins during the early 1960s" Paul Bosco is one of a very few( including Steven Album) auctioniers' who highlights the doubts regarding these counterstamps.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2012  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hopefully ANS will allow me to include full size photos of the Catalog in our upcoming book. I planned to do it as a warning. The catalog as NO copyright data so it is open season for publication . I too had noticed that many of the host MTT's were far too new to have legitimate stamps applied to them and find it very strange that most auction houses lack the level of expertise to know that. These are RUDIMENTARY facts. It is like gauging wear between the date on the coin and the application of the stamp and comparing that to the wear on the stamp itself. They are only comparable on originals. Real easy stuff most people overlook.

That is also why in my section of the book I have stuck with the KISS principle. That means "Keep It Simple Stupid". I learned this from an Olympic fencing coach in 1968 and never forgot the lesson. Start simple - never assume anyone really knows anything above a beginner level and work from that basis. It worked for me when I coached fencing at a Collegiate level - it works in business and it certainly works in Counterfeit Detection.

Sometimes the most basic and obvious clues are missed - even by so called "experts".
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2012  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
swamperbob : not sure how the US copyright low are, but in France at least, any work is by default copyright to its author.
That even include forum posts - which theoretically cannot be deleted without the user consent.
But anyway, that book was made without any traceable infos - so no worries :D (btw, any book publish officially should have an ISBN ... which is not the case)
Now that I think about it, maybe it's possible to contact the company which printed that book ...
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2012  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I looked up the company that printed the book - it is a small printer who does photocopying work - like a UPS Store here in the US. They may know who had it printed or they might not. Their name could have been used just like the author. I figured it was not worth checking out.
Valued Member
Germany
194 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2012  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dosmundos to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I made a scanned PDF copy of this book and sent it around plus posted it in various forums on the internet. I am a devoted collector of numismatic books and very much against any infringement on authors' rights, but in this case I make an exception.

This thing was made to provide credibility to an operation trying to defraud collectors with false counterstamps, just like the articles posted on http://www.numisma.es by somebody under the name of José Antonio de la Fuente Freyre.

(http://www.numisma.es/De_la_Fuente/Freyre.htm)

I hope the "author" comes out and threatens to sue me. That way, we'll find out who he is :-)

I can only hope the ANS will allow a fair warning to be issued. It can't be illegal to print the cover of a book along with a "review", right?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 11/20/2012  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dosmundos I certainly hope they will.

I also plan to include a few of the Modern Counterfeits posted on ebay sold by guys from China. I have no idea if they can sue but I figure anyone posting an illegal to import coin should not be protected either.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2012  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, if you print pictures of coins you bought from them ... I don't see the problem.
Edited by MathieuMa
11/21/2012 11:57 am
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 11/21/2012  9:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought some but once I identifie a type I just recorded the pictures and info. Most are from China, Romania, Spain, Greece and the Philippines.
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