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 Replies: 25 / Views: 2,881 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
1943 Posts |
Where did you get those images? What they are saying is incorrect. There is no difference in location between a clash and the Die Deterioration from transfer die wear. The difference I always noticed is a clash has sharp defined lines where the Die Deterioration has soft lines which is why the ghost term is sometimes used. I think you will find the outline at the ONE on the reverse is the shoulders and not the head. The outline on the British penny is aligned this way because the British coins (unlike US coins) use medal alignment with their dies. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
Biokemis6, if you go to the thread where the guy asked me to go where there was "Ghosting", there wasn't anything technical about what was said. I did not address that post at all so I am not sure why you are ranting about it  See this post for a real example of Heavy Design Transfer on a Lincoln Cent. Quote:
For ghosted coins, if you look at the obverse, then look at the reverse, the "ghost" will be rotated in the same direction. Whereas with a Die Clash, if you look at the obverse then look at the reverse, the clashed images of abe is flipped 180 degrees like it should with his head under "AMERICA", not under/in the word "ONE".
This statement is completely wrong. Both die clashes and Heavy Design Transfer will have 180 degree rotation between sides. Your example of a British penny is a fail since it is struck in medal alignment unlike US coins. Edited by biokemist6
11/05/2012 4:32 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
162 Posts |
Ahhhh, that British Penny confused me! That and the lack of technical terms being used, and the thread that was linked to me wasn't "ghosting" whatsoever so it made me think that ghosting was rotated differently. D: I'm still positive that mine isn't ghosting though. I made the one image based on the information that was told to me in previous posts, but now finding out the thread that was linked to me wasn't a ghosted coin I can now base my information off of factual sources. The image I made was wrong! I'll admit that, my sources were iffy and confusing me xD. As for where I got the images that I used in the image I made, I got them from http://www.error-ref.com which is run by "Jason Cuvelier, Mike Diamond, BJ Neff, Jon Sullivan, Fred Weinberg & Jeff Ylitalo " Made a new image with the CORRECT outline for a Die Clash & Ghost, sorry about the last one.  |
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
I now realize what I said was wrong Biokemist6, I went off of the thread that was linked to me which wasn't even a ghost. The reason I am "ranting" about it is because I was told my coin was "ghosted" then linked to a thread that wasn't a ghosted coin. This caused a LOT of confusion for me as I completely trusted that what was linked/said to me was true so I based my information off of such. I've seen in a few threads where people hastily reply saying something has a "die crack" or just " Die Deterioration" just for the thread OP to find out that it was a Die Clash in the end... I guess it's just a pet peeve of mine. I spent at least an hour just trying to find out what "ghosting" was until I found out there was a technical term for it (Progressive Indirect Design Transfer) that I could easily google and find a lot of information about it. EDIT: To put it shortly (not really.. lol), some of us (like me) are new to coin collecting and will believe & trust any advice you guys on the forums give us. That being said, if you think something isn't an error coin, you should be positive that you're correct and the information you're providing is 100% accurate. Also, at least give a counterargument or some reasons as to what you based your conclusion off of otherwise it seems like you're just guessing and won't do much convincing. Also, it makes it impossible to learn when people don't give reasons for their assumptions. I can't see/think what they do, I'm not psychic.  Edited by TheCentMan
11/05/2012 5:11 pm
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
Spoke to Mr. Diamond and he confirmed this is PITD (Progressive Indirect Design Transfer). He also explained as to why I was so confused about it. In the article I was reading about 1925-S Die Clashes it stated that the indicator of the clash was Lincoln's shoulder going through the "C" and provided this image as indication:  However, it turns out the coin it showed as a "Die Clash" is actually Progressive Indirect Design Transfer ("Ghosting"). I knew my coin matched up perfectly to that coin, however I did not know that the article was incorrect. It had a PITD labeled as a Die Clash. "As to the cent featured in maddieclashes, I certainly see the clash marks on the obverse face. However, the alleged clash mark of the back of Lincoln's coat on the reverse face isn't, in fact, a clash mark. It's Die Deterioration (progressive indirect design transfer). It's far too broad and ill-defined to be a clash mark." Turns out I was basing my opinion of a Die Clash on an example of PITD & I was basing my opinion of PITD's off a coin that wasn't even a PITD or "ghosted" coin. Let's just say this made for a very confusing morning, sorry everyone!  Edited by TheCentMan
11/05/2012 6:36 pm
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
My bad  , sorry everyone. I should probably stop giving my "opinion" so much. I need to let the pros answer the posts. John1  |
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
It's okay John, you were actually right about it being "ghosting" but I'm pretty sure the link you provided was not a "ghost" but merely something the dude was seeing. Apparently even the experts were in the wrong on this one. They labeled and were showing a PIDT as a Die Clash. We're all human, we all make mistakes. I think I just made a thousand mistakes, but I can admit that. The important thing is that I learned a lot in the process! I come here for knowledge, not to make money.  Edited by TheCentMan
11/05/2012 7:46 pm
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
Thanks TheCentMan for saying that it makes me feel better  John1 Edited by John1
11/06/2012 11:46 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
1943 Posts |
I'm glad you were patient enough to hang in there until everything was clear. In the end it makes for an informative thread.
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
Oh yeah, always willing to hang in there! If I have questions, I'll ask them. If someone gives me an answer to something but doesn't give a reason why, I'll ask. Even if they do give a reason, I'll probably still ask a few questions. Whatever I can do to get as much information as possible. I feel better knowing exactly what my coin is and why it is something. Possibly why it isn't something as well, in the case that I'm wrong (which is most of the time when I'm making a thread, hence the reason I made a thread). That way I'll become more proficient at identifying them in the future.
Definitely made for an informative thread, which is always what I'm after. Hopefully the page on MadDieClashes gets revised so less people have to keep asking this same question.
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Replies: 25 / Views: 2,881 |
First Page
Posted 11/05/2012 4:26 pm
